I didn't realize you were just comparing their first 8 seasons. I think Paul has been better than Stockton was at the same points in their careers.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Stockton had better raw numbers, I believe Paul was the better player. As I said, Paul doesn't really have any weaknesses. Stockton did. Paul has yet to play with a top 3 PF of all time also.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

2012 PG is a very different position than 1992 PG


It makes the already difficult comparison even worse

I wish lance Haffner was still making his games. They are perfect for this. They are number crunchy stat driven stuff awesome. I have the Prowrestling and Baseball games. Nothing like pitting the 27 Yankees vs the 1918 white sox or Hogan at his prime vs Lou These. Great stuff. He did games for everything.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

I'm halfway done building a working flux capacitor so we should know by 2018 or so.

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That's fine if you believe that, but it's a tough argument to make. You either have to make the case that something is different now that causes lesser numbers to be better or it sounds like you're just saying one guy is better based on "a feeling". And this is where B&b always go to the silly argument that players have "evolved". Humans are exactly the same as they were thirty years ago. Today's players may take different drugs and wear different shoes and lift different weights. I constantly hear about how much bigger today's players are, and yet, the Dream Team was far bigger than this collection of players.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

JORR, isnt it paritally true in football.

Even in the last 30 years the average weight of an O lineman has gone up like 50lbs (guessing)

Yeah, but I think that speaks more to the style of the game. Certain guys that can play now couldn't play then and vice versa. Today's offensive lineman are just big, fat, and strong, like giant boulders designed specifically to protect a passer. They couldn't get out and run in front of a sweep like Jerry Kramer did. But they don't have to. That speaks more to fashion than an actual change in humans.

Players exist in their own times. I read somewhere that a guy thought Nolan Ryan couldn't have made a rotation in the 40s or 50s because striking out in that time was anathema. The hitters of that era would have walked against him far more than the guys in his own time did, as patient batters were abundant. The converse is that today Ryan might average 13 Ks a game. There's no really way of knowing if that's true, of course, but the point is you have to look at guys in the context of their own eras.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

The 3 Point shooting, you can chalk that up to the "offense" that coach K runs. I've been a Duke fan for forever, but all they run on offense is variations on four corners, a one/four flat or isolation pick and roll.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I've already made the case. You just never respond to it. And I used raw numbers for a reason. Chris Paul's PER was higher in almost every season he's played than Stockton's was in 1992. Chris Paul'a almost MVP season of 2008 pretty much kills any one season Stockton has had. And as I said, there's a significant difference between Karl Malone and David West/Blake. Also ever since Paul's ACL surgery he's paced himself for the first three quarters of games. He has said that, and it's also clear when you watch him play. The numbers all back it up too as his "advanced clutch" stats were off the charts also. It's really not a tough argument to make that Chris Paul is as good or better than Stockton. Stockton was never even the best player on his own team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

A long time ago someone wrote this:

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But, what were their G.P.A.'s?

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not sure where you are going with this. Nothing I have said has been false, and nothing I have said is stating or implying that Stockton wasn't great. I just think Paul was better and responded accordingly.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You went from saying that to arguing that Paul is better in every way except passing, and even that is debatable.

You clearly think it's not even a discussion. Paul is far superior in your mind in pretty much every way.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nope. This is just Brick Bricking a thread again. You want me to say he's far superior because that's easier to argue against. That's your thing.

I said he's better in every area. He's a better scorer, probably by a decent margin. He's a little better at rebounding. He's a little better at defense because of the aforementioned weakness in that area. I said passing is debatable because in Paul's two best seasons his Ast% is almost on par with Stockton's best years. Paul is a better overall player, but not by a wide margin. I say this to you often but if you have a problem with what I say, argue against that, not what you wanted me to say.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And Paul wouldn't have been either had he played his whole career with Malone.

And wouldn't West have been a great player 20 years ago since the league is so superior today?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

You don't see my confusion here?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're not confused. You're just acting stupid. That second quote was in response to you saying I think he's far superior in every area, which I never said. I even spelled it out for you Sesame St style. I think Paul was slightly better in every area except passing, which I'd give a slight edge to Stockton in. Because of that I think Paul is a slightly better player. Which means I think he is a better player, but not far superior. It's close, but Paul is better.

If you're still confused now, then just quit the board.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Interesting that "slightly better" seems to have entered the discussion.

Anyways, thanks for clarifying. There is literally nothing that Stockton did better than Paul, and Paul did everything better than Stockton except passing, but you only consider Paul to be slightly better than Stockton.

I do have one question though. If Paul is only slightly better than Stockton, why were you so confident that Paul would be the best at his position?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Slightly better entered the conversation because you felt the need to exaggerate my position and way "far superior" when all I originally said was better.

I feel Chris Paul is the better option because slightly better is still better. This isn't tough stuff to grasp OR.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul