Bonds was on 90210 with his dad playing against Steve and his dad.

Griffey wasnt.


Which seems weird. Seems much more a Junior thing to do than Bonds

Fair enough, to be honest I liked the younger Bonds way better than the other one. He was one of the best I had ever seen, could do it all.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

"Losing Pitcher" John Danks agrees.

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I could make the argument a plus defender, like Jr, was more important than ever in such an era

He must have gotten the good stuff in his mid 30's.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Young Bonds > Young Griffey

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Yeah, you could. But that wasn't really the fashionable viewpoint at the time when Bill James was writing about the lack of importance of outfield defense in his Abstracts.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I don't think there's any question about that.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I beg to differ. Prior to 2001 peak WAR: Bonds 10.5, Griffey 9.7. Peak wRC+ (pre 2001): Bonds 198, Griffey 164.

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

He got the good stuff after getting jealous of Sosa and McGwire and trying to recover from an injury at age 34

He was coming off an injury shortened year where he hit .262. in 103 games

Weren't they playing in different leagues at a time when the disparity between them was probably at its largest? I don't really see how WAR in one league relates to WAR in another.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Not sure about WAR, but wRC+ is park, league, and era adjusted.

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

I was using Baseball reference WAR. Bonds high is 9.9

And they're different leagues so its not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, like I wrote, center field defense is more important than stolen bases.

Plus Griffey would have thrown out Sid Bream

I know the definition of wRC+ suggest it is "league adjusted". But I'm not sure what that means exactly. It's based on a scale with 100 being average, similar to OPS+ or ERA+. But the 100 average is based on the league average for a given season, no? For example, if we were figuring wRC+ for the Oak Forest Little League, RPB's daughter may be at 165. That doesn't mean she was better than Ken Griffey.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Everything Griffey did just looked so flawless. Sweet swing, and even cuts the bag perfectly rounding 3rd in RPB's gif above.

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he could even transport himself through the time/space continuum.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Also in the small sample sizes that were talking here (pre 99) Griffey was much better in the playoffs

His wrist would disagree.

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I gotta tell you, DeAza > Old Griffey. "General Soreness"

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

[/quote]And they're different leagues so its not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, like I wrote, center field defense is more important than stolen bases.

Plus Griffey would have thrown out Sid Bream[/quote]

Yeah I was using FanGraphs WAR or fWAR. rWAR shows Griffey's peak as 9.7. Both measures are positionally adjusted and take into account baserunning, though fWAR and rWAR use different baserunning metrics. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/war/differences-fwar-rwar/

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

So because Bonds didn't throw out a guy in a big situation, that means that he's a lesser player than Griffey because Griffey beat a throw in a big situation?

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

You might be able to link Bonds steroid use to that Sid Bream throw. If he makes that throw and the Pirates win the WS, I think it is hard to let them blow up the team like they did. He stays in PIT and isnt worried about chasing Sosa and McGuire because he already has his ring and is the local hero in PIT.

At least that is how my alternate universe plays out...

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Why do they have the PIT/STL score graphic in the corner for a Braves game?

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You know me like that.

Probably a highlight that was ran during PIT playoff series last year.

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He had become an afterthought. Similar to Big Hurt. He was clearly the best player in Chicago but no one really cared.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Nice catch . That isn't the .gif of the actual throw.

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."

And ironically enough, if he were on steroids at the time maybe he throws harder and nails Bream at the plate.

Its a funny game.

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No, if RPB's daughter had a wRC+ of 165 that would mean that her offense be 65% better than league average in the Oak Forest League that year regardless of the park they played in. If Griffey had a wRC+ of 165 that would mean that his offense was 65% better than Major League average in that year regardless of the park he played in. Obviously the level of competition in MLB is much greater than that of the OFL. That's why the stat is so relevant, because it contextualizes offensive performance. Hence a wRC+ of 165 in the Oak Forest League in 2014 would not be the same as a 165 wRC+ in the Major Leagues in 1993. And I checked fWAR is also context neutral.

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"Now comes good sailing. Moose. Indian."