Are the scholarships the players get not worth anything?

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

On a ledger or IRL?

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

but that's the whole point. The majority of people think that, hence the need to constantly remind them of how sleazy it really is...

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

In real life, it is a lot of money that is not coming out of the kid or the parents pockets.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

As much as he can get. I don't think Wisconsin can play without a backup TE, do you? So if it comes down to paying a guy his true market value, whatever that may be, to keep the money train rolling, Wisconsin (and Alabama and Michigan and LSU, etc. etc.) will pay it.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Freshman WRs are getting 6 figures, apparently:

Sports Illustrated ‏@SInow 30s
Report: Schools offered $300-600K during recruitment of Texas A&M freshman WR http://on.si.com/17i6sby

That's a pretty good non-answer.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I prefer college football to the NFL, but unlike BRick, my joy in watching it doesn't cause me to make bad arguments about why the people providing the labor in a billion dollar business shouldn't get paid.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Where did I say they shouldn't get paid?

I don't think they should have uncapped payouts just like the NFL doesn't but I most certainly think they should be paid more than they are right now.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You can see that the "college football" that the vast majority of people pay attention to will soon have about the same number of teams as the NFL. The top tier teams that will be competing for the "National Championship" are going to be playing what amounts to a different sport than all the smaller schools and lesser conferences, if they aren't already. There's no reason that the non-student athletes that represent those top tier universities on fall Saturdays shouldn't collectively bargain for a pay scale and/or other benefits. If they don't, they're fools. And Wisconsin will pay for its backup TE just like the Tampa Bay Bucaneers do.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I think a top tier of college football is coming, but it's going to be for schools that can afford to and want to provide players a few thousand dollars a month in "living expenses". I don't ever see an NFL model where players are being provided a majority of the total revenue. There are a lot of reasons for this, but some of the primary ones are that they'd have to drop just about every other men's sport and many women's sports, they'd see a lower amount of donations, and it also would be hard to justify why it would be attached to a college at all. I just don't see it. Eventually, the money isn't worth it when it's just going to pay players. Unlike a pro team, where the owner extracts money out of it, the colleges use football to pay for other athletic events. It is a zero sum game. If football can't cover the cost of other teams why even have it?

They are free to do that, but the schools are under no obligation to work with them. Just like the Ivy League, the schools and conferences are free to opt out of any benefits they want to pay. It may become a glorified club team, but that may not be a bad idea. It may put the actual student back in student-athlete.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'd be all for that. But I doubt their television partners would.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

If we are talking about an uncapped salary structure then I doubt it would happen for a long time. However, if it did, as long as the conferences still provided the same benefits they do now I doubt it would matter. Future contracts may be lower, but ESPN isn't dropping the Big Ten because the SEC is paying out huge salaries. Big Ten football sucks most of the time anyways. People still watch in huge numbers. If the SEC wants to branch out on it's own maybe my team can finally win a "national championship".

I've actually thought about it a lot. The ONLY workable solution is all players being eligible for a few thousand dollars a month in living expenses. If there was a model that worked that paid players hundreds of thousands of dollars we'd have a minor league system that does it. There is none in any sport. No reason to think that college football could thrive with it if for profit entities can't come up with a way to do it even with the immense popularity of minor league systems in sports like baseball.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But that's the thing- and you and I agree on some aspects of this wide-ranging discussion and disagree on others-, college football is not a minor league sport. At its top level it's about as major league as it gets.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I don't think it is a minor league sport. However, paying out salaries and involving agents and negotiations and realistically removing any link between being a student and an athlete basically turns it into a minor league system.

I know I'm donating a lot less to my school if I'm basically just providing our starting running back a better car.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The NFL being a not-for-profit just means that its revenues go to its member teams after operating expenses. The NHL is organized the same way. I'm sure the NBA and MLB are the same way. I don't understand what the long discussion was.

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Here goes....The NCAA gives you more opportunity to see 10 to 12 really good games a week...where the NFL maybe 10 to 12 a year. Look at the NFL's first week...how many games get you pumped? Plus college rivalry games ...gets my blood boiling!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Sigh. It's obvious why sports leagues exist, and why they behave the way they do. I don't necessarily like it, but to some degree, it is what it is.


Is it obvious that there has to be college sports that are, in effect, just camouflaged professional sports leagues?

No, it fucking isn't. Proof: this is pretty much a strictly American phenomenon. College sports as they exist in under the NCAA is an affront to the entire institution of higher learning.

So yes, I'd say you are a retard if you don't see the difference here.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Exactly. And the players are doing the same thing. I don't agree with all the practices of the NFL, but it is what it is: spectator sports for the sole purpose of making money. Probably my biggest gripe with the NFL is the way it exploits municipalities; my own home state is a great example of that. But at least it's not sitting there claiming it has some higher purpose.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

You could say the same thing about major college football. It's easy to pick and choose your standards!
Yes. It's a continuation of high school sports, which is a continuation of youth sports. The problem is not that college sports exists. Ironically though, most people who get on their high horse about college sports would solve it by making college sports MORE like professional sports by paying players and making the requirement of being a student-athlete go away.
Who cares if it is an American phenomenon? American football is an American phenomenon.

Your whole argument ultimately boils down to you deciding arbitrary lines. Corporations should be free to exploit and pillage as they see fit but colleges should get completely out of the football game because universities in Tokyo don't link it quite as strongly and universities are institutions of higher learning and cannot possibly handle having a football team and teaching the other 99.5% of the student population!

Moral relativism at it's finest! I say the same things about Wall Street and fracking companies! They may be terrible drains on society and they may hurt many people but at least they know they don't even put up an attempt to act otherwise!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!