Pitched better than Arrieta today!

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Even Arrieta's effort, if given for the White Sox, would have resulted in a "loss". Not sure what your intended point is, here.

0-2 with a 6.17 ERA so far. Good thing there's no chance of his trade value declining!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

MLB GM's aren't going to devalue an asset because of one bad start, especially when it is followed up in short order by a pretty good (and normal for the player in question) one.

That you're ignoring the context of the actual game as if it has no significance. The efforts of Arrieta and Quintana and all other players do not exist outside the games in which they occurred.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

One bad start of only two so far. We'll see how the season continues.

Anyway, he got outpitched once again. Happens pretty often with Q.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If swapping out nothing more than "context of the actual game" can turn a really good start into a "loss", then yeah, the "context of the actual game" is going to be ignored, for good reason: it is irrelevant to the current objective of valuating pitching performance.

When Jose Quintana can pitch against the White Sox lineup, then you can say he was "outpitched". He'd clown this lineup of chumps.

Are you under the impression the Twins lineup is significantly better?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's not though. You think it's coincidence that Quintana just allows more runs than most guys that you would say he is much better than when they're both in the same game? And yeah, I know you're going to talk about the Sox "terrible" offense which is no more than a fraction of a run weaker than most teams Quintana is pitching against. The Twins team he was facing today might set a record for striking out.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

He'd lose 1-0 or 2-1.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

If he always performs poorly relative to his opponent, why are all of his "peripheral" stats so far above (better than) league average?




We've discussed this at length. I've done the math for you, so stop being so obtuse. Those "fractions of a run" you like to talk about all resolve down to a difference of multiple runs. (4.6 against 4.2 will lead to many more 5/6-4/3 games than it will 4-4 ones, etc.)

Don't make shit up. Had we been talking Quintana, I would have stated that he is the one whose value will almost certainly plummet.

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wasn't talking about you ya fuckin narcissist.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There are others?

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Not necessarily, it's just that the Twins lineup is decidedly not the White Sox lineup. Seems appropriate to compare apples to apples if you're going to make relative comparisons like "out-pitched" given a one-game sample, no?

Also, Mauer-Sano is a better 1-2 punch than can be found in the Sox lineup. And if Robbie Grossman can replicate what he did last year, even 90% of it, that's a far scarier succession of hitters than the Sox can muster.

Going by your logic, is it fair to say it's impossible for one coach to outcoach another? After all, they are coaching different teams so it's an unfair comparison, right?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Right. And if Quintana is as good as you say he is he should pitch better against the Twins than some "lesser" guy does vs. the Sox most of the time.

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8

The amount of run support Arrieta gets truly is bizarre. Seems like he starts every game with a 3-run cushion.

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Quintana's job is not relativistic. It is to limit scoring as best possible by limiting hits and walks, preferably by amassing strikeouts. He does this better than MANY.

Whether that scoring is relatively more or less than that of his batting lineup at the time he exits the game is literally not up to him at all.

Check the scoreboard

Man,oh,man....JORR reaching for anything to downgrade the Champs.

Not the champs over a decade ago,the CURRENT CHAMPS!

Just let it go.

#2016 happened,live with it.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

This is why I can't get on board with how you view the game. Sports are competitive. Every analysis of pitchers you give leaves that factor out.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's incredibly competitive, just in the "pitcher-hitter" dimension.

It is hard to compare various performances in that dimension, unless there are plenty of them, and/or commonality of opponents.

In this example, that would be Ervin Santana and Jose Quintana both pitching against this Sox or this Twins lineup, OR against enough opponents pulled from "the league" that we can be reasonably assured that they faced roughly equal opponents on the whole.

We do have a big sample size. Jose Quintana has started 153 games. He has 94 decisions. He is 46-48 in those decisions. I don't know how much bigger the sample size needs to get before we can acknowledge he is what he is.

Reminds me of a quote from the show your avatar is from. People tell you who they are, but we ignore it, because we want them to be who we want them to be.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Except there are other metrics besides "decisions" that focus more on that pitcher-hitter dimension--instead of pitcher-pitcher like decisions--in which Quintana is one of the best in the league.

The metric of "decisions" places the onus of a batting lineup's run scoring on their pitcher. The sample is plenty large enough, but culling meaning from it via an incredibly flawed metric doesn't help.

The W/L argument also completely discounts the impact of hitters. If we were to follow that logic out, then every team should just get sub-par to par hitters and focus solely on pitching. Guys like Kris Bryant or Frank Thomas have very little impact.

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I feel Schwarber should have made the catch before brauns HR making 3 of those run, unearned

It does no such thing. Sale has had the same offense throughout his career as Quintana and he's a .600 pitcher. Because he's good.

When good hitters face Kershaw and Bumgarner they look subpar, don't they?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Did you see what happened to Kershaw yesterday? And you disparage others for not watching games.