They may be shitty people, but damn they do have a just cause. There is a real problem in this country when 50+% of the land in most Western states (85% in Nevada) is controlled entirely by the Federal government with no local input.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... heir-case/

I'd also point to the 2014 stand-off as proof that well armed citizens can hold tyrants at bay.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

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Yes. The government does lie and does bad things to its citizens.

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Elections have consequences.

Fuck Cliven and his brood.

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Beat them charges like Rocky

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Possibly the most uninformed thing ever posted here.

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Worse than deep breathing cures cancer?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

How so? The "tyrants" in this instnace simply decided they didn't want to eviscerate the Bundys.

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Why is it bad for the government to own a lot of land?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It seemed the Bundys and their supporters had enough fire power to make them think twice. Without them being there in force we would've had Ruby Ridge Part II. I welcome an armed citizenry using its 2nd Amendment rights as Madison envisioned to repel tyrants.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

because with the exception of small pockets such as National Parks, that land should belong to the local governments and states. It's a real problem when a state has 85% of its land owned and sealed off by the Federal Government.

As I've said before, the Sagebrush Rebellion is a noble cause

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Feds should have just opened up the place to a cow shoot and BBQ.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Why though?

Federal government = bad doesn't convince me.

With how you mock certain states for mismanagement why do you want them to have it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The states and local jurisdictions will at least manage/utilize the land in a manner which benefits their constituents where the current situation is to have it controlled by a bureaucrat in DC who probably never visited the state in the 1st place. Local governments are more receptive to the needs and desires of their citizens than a giant DC bureaucracy.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

This, and the fact that the government had grossly under estimated the resistance that they would be meeting up with.

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Aren't these people alt-right Mormons who basically laid down their arms and surrendered when one of their own was killed by the FBI?

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From what I've read the federal government does a pretty good job in general with grazing rights. The state would likely do no better.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The feds could have brought in additional firepower if so desired. I think the potential negative publicity for escalating the confrontation likely outweighed tactical considerations. The overall strategy seemed to rely on surreptitiously manipulating legal mechanisms to punish the Bundys rather than doing so by overwhelming force--and thereby validating the Bundys anti-government rhetoric.

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Plan A is always better than Plan B.

The level of manipulation by the feds is over top here. Even for them.

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Does this ruling mean I can cut firewood in Thatcher Woods?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

There is plenty laying on the forest floor due to the Democratic party allowing MANY of the Forest Preserve properties to go to shit over the last 50 years.

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N/A

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this is the biggest reason for an armed citizenry. they wouldn't have the firepower of a gvt, but it would be such an absolute mess on the world stage, a power will theoretically think twice.

Don't we have more of an armed citizenry than the rest of the developed world?

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Whereas if there was government violence against an unarmed citizenry the world would instead just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

Pretty much yes, see Catalonia.

The government tramples on their rights, but escapes criticism on the world stage because they can contain the violence when they are the only party with the guns. If the protesters have guns, a stand-off can ensue and the government is faced with the prospect an armed conflict (which makes them look bad) or backing off and taking the loss. They took the loss here because the Bundys and their supporters were armed.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Yes, and that's a good thing. It's exactly as Madison intended.

That 2nd Amendment preserves the 1st and all others.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Not only should the Federal Government own more land (and all the money), the Electoral College should be eliminated ensuring President Oprah. It's too late for me. I have been forced to suffer, a martyr to the tyranny of meaningless states like Utah and Nebraska and their deplorable residents.

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I'm With Me.

No we and much of the rest of the world wouldn't have cared about Catalonia regardless of how armed or unarmed they were unless it was relevant to our strategic interests. This isn't close to a parallel with the US or some kind of knockout argument in favor of guns that you keep trying to pretend it is.

People would care about Catalonia if the protesters had arms to defend themselves. Then they would've been able to assert their rights. Let's see how easily the police would've closed polling stations if people had arms. I bet they would've held back. It's easy to trample on rights when the trampled have no means to exert force.

If the Bundys were unarmed, the Federal forces would've just moved in, beat them down, and hauled them away. That didn't happen though. The arms forced the government to stand down.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson