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SCOTUS
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=87585
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Author:  pittmike [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  SCOTUS

Victory for privacy... for once.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -searches/

Author:  Don Tiny [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Obviously it's terrific that they didn't go the other way on this.

It seems to me, though, that it's only a matter of time until law enforcement comes up with some workaround to it ... generally under the "public safety" moniker ... an exception that has all but swallowed up the rule of the 4th Amendment it seems.

It's good to get some of the veneer back up on the wall, so to speak, but until actualy remediation work begins, rather than temporary mititgation, the continued and almost entirely unnecessary militirization of law enforcement will trivialize important reclamations such as this one.

Author:  pittmike [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Agree but I thought it was nice that it was also unanimous. "Get a warrant".

Author:  bigfan [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Supreme court guys just flowing with gods words today

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

The Hobby Lobby decision is disappointing.

I guess the religious rights of a corporation is more important than the religious rights of an individual worker.

Author:  Chus [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The Hobby Lobby decision is disappointing.

I guess the religious rights of a corporation is more important than the religious rights of an individual worker.


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/john-oliver- ... dWsOo6Ehkb

Author:  Big Chicagoan [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

What if healthcare, in general, was against Hobby Lobby's religion?

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Big Chicagoan wrote:
What if healthcare, in general, was against Hobby Lobby's religion?


That is a little murky for me.

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Big Chicagoan wrote:
What if healthcare, in general, was against Hobby Lobby's religion?
It leads to all sorts of seemingly off the wall questions.

Can Hobby Lobby start denying healthcare to unmarried pregnant women?

Author:  Don Tiny [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The Hobby Lobby decision is disappointing.

I guess the religious rights of a corporation is more important than the religious rights of an individual worker.


Corporations are very clearly 'people' ... they have clear rights just like these promiscuous women ... should we conveniently ignore the obviously more intelligent wealth-makers' clear decision to be meet and right in the eyes of the Lord? Thank God for places like Hobby Lobby to be able to proselytize to the ignorant and lustful people of this damnable nation. Hobby Lobby - stop screwing, start sewing.

Author:  lipidquadcab [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

It's stuff like this you can point to during election years when people try telling you there is no difference between voting for an R and voting for a D.

Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The Hobby Lobby decision is disappointing.

I guess the religious rights of a corporation is more important than the religious rights of an individual worker.



What religious rights do their workers lose out on here?

Author:  bigfan [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Don Tiny wrote:
Obviously it's terrific that they didn't go the other way on this.

It seems to me, though, that it's only a matter of time until law enforcement comes up with some workaround to it ... generally under the "public safety" moniker ... an exception that has all but .


Thought they basically did with the caveat of emergencies or help prevent other crimes.

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Seacrest wrote:
What religious rights do their workers lose out on here?
There were two possible outcomes here. Either employees had the right to access to certain types of healthcare based on their own religious beliefs and not the corporation's religious beliefs or the corporation was found to have the right to deny healthcare based on the corporation's religious beliefs.

Either way, someone(or something) was going to lose a religious right. The answer here was the worker who now has their healthcare effected based on the religious beliefs of a corporation.

Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
What religious rights do their workers lose out on here?
There were two possible outcomes here. Either employees had the right to access to certain types of healthcare based on their own religious beliefs and not the corporation's religious beliefs or the corporation was found to have the right to deny healthcare based on the corporation's religious beliefs.

Either way, someone(or something) was going to lose a religious right. The answer here was the worker who now has their healthcare effected based on the religious beliefs of a corporation.



So your understanding is that the employees of Hobby Lobby are no longer afforded the right to buy birth control?

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
What religious rights do their workers lose out on here?
There were two possible outcomes here. Either employees had the right to access to certain types of healthcare based on their own religious beliefs and not the corporation's religious beliefs or the corporation was found to have the right to deny healthcare based on the corporation's religious beliefs.

Either way, someone(or something) was going to lose a religious right. The answer here was the worker who now has their healthcare effected based on the religious beliefs of a corporation.


After I thought some more on this hasn't the court been consistent in recent times that corporations have the same rights a people. The biggest ruling in this area was with political spending rights if I have it right. Therefore, they held these rare closely held corps have their right. I this the part about the least restrictive thing held that the corp does not disallow people from getting contraceptives just that they do not pay. It would be way different if they forbid employees from any aspect of heath care they objected to.

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Seacrest wrote:
So your understanding is that the employees of Hobby Lobby are no longer afforded the right to buy birth control?
No. This case was about their insurance being forced to cover it. They no longer have the right to have it covered by insurance. Hobby Lobby was given the right to deny based on religious reasons. It's only logical that this means that the hypothetical worker was then denied the right to have it paid for because of religious reasons.

Author:  Hussra [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Cops can get a warrant from their squad car nowadays. There might even be an app for that.

As long as your phone is password protected, the only way to get beyond the password is either for you to give it to them (not required, 5th amendment) or to take it back to the station and get a warrant to crack the security on the device as well as track down an IT person to do it. That was true even before this Supreme Court ruling.

Besides a password, not a bad idea to encrypt your phone's data as well.

Android's built-in encryption works well:

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/enc ... -security/

Author:  Nas [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The Hobby Lobby decision is disappointing.

I guess the religious rights of a corporation is more important than the religious rights of an individual worker.


Corporations are people.

Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
So your understanding is that the employees of Hobby Lobby are no longer afforded the right to buy birth control?
No. This case was about their insurance being forced to cover it. They no longer have the right to have it covered by insurance. Hobby Lobby was given the right to deny based on religious reasons. It's only logical that this means that the hypothetical worker was then denied the right to have it paid for because of religious reasons.


But their access to birth control is not denied.

So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

pittmike wrote:
After I thought some more on this hasn't the court been consistent in recent times that corporations have the same rights a people. The biggest ruling in this area was with political spending rights if I have it right. Therefore, they held these rare closely held corps have their right.
Yes, but this is literally choosing the rights of a corporation over the rights of an individual.
pittmike wrote:
I this the part about the least restrictive thing held that the corp does not disallow people from getting contraceptives just that they do not pay. It would be way different if they forbid employees from any aspect of heath care they objected to.
This does not matter though. Employees still have rights and they don't lose them because another alternative exists.

Author:  DannyB [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
So your understanding is that the employees of Hobby Lobby are no longer afforded the right to buy birth control?
No. This case was about their insurance being forced to cover it. They no longer have the right to have it covered by insurance. Hobby Lobby was given the right to deny based on religious reasons. It's only logical that this means that the hypothetical worker was then denied the right to have it paid for because of religious reasons.


But their access to birth control is not denied.

So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?


No offense, that's an absurd trollish question. A corporation is constitutionally prohibited from denying birth control on religious grounds in a society where the majority of health care is administered through employer-sponsored health plans. Or at least it was. Any rational person who happens not to be some kind of religious zealot, and who celebrates this decision for any other reason than cheering for their "team" has absolute shit for brains. The decision is a total and complete embarrassment to anyone with an IQ over 85.

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Seacrest wrote:
But their access to birth control is not denied.
I didn't say it was.
Seacrest wrote:
So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?
Based on the law it was. That changed though with the ruling.

Author:  Chus [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Image

Author:  Chus [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Image

Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

DannyB wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
So your understanding is that the employees of Hobby Lobby are no longer afforded the right to buy birth control?
No. This case was about their insurance being forced to cover it. They no longer have the right to have it covered by insurance. Hobby Lobby was given the right to deny based on religious reasons. It's only logical that this means that the hypothetical worker was then denied the right to have it paid for because of religious reasons.


But their access to birth control is not denied.

So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?


No offense, that's an absurd trollish question. A corporation is constitutionally prohibited from denying birth control on religious grounds in a society where the majority of health care is administered through employer-sponsored health plans. Or at least it was. Any rational person who happens not to be some kind of religious zealot, and who celebrates this decision for any other reason than cheering for their "team" has absolute shit for brains. The decision is a total and complete embarrassment to anyone with an IQ over 85.


Who was denied birth control by today's ruling?

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
But their access to birth control is not denied.
I didn't say it was.
Seacrest wrote:
So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?
Based on the law it was. That changed though with the ruling.



Look I do not care about birth control but Rick I do not get your thought. Based on the law prior to the ruling the corp was legally bound to provide birth control not constitutionally. What the court said was they are not obligated based on their take on it. Again, if the corp forbid them to get/use birth control then you would be right.

Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
But their access to birth control is not denied.
I didn't say it was.
Seacrest wrote:
So are you saying that a corporation is constitutionally bound to pay for an employees birth control?
Based on the law it was. That changed though with the ruling.


No, it changed because what the law required was found to never have been constitutional.

So, why is the law not paying for my medication?

Author:  Brick [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

pittmike wrote:
Look I do not care about birth control but Rick I do not get your thought. Based on the law prior to the ruling the corp was legally bound to provide birth control not constitutionally. What the court said was they are not obligated based on their take on it.
So they had the right, and then they lost it. You have plenty of rights that aren't specifically laid out in the Constitution. For instance, you have the right not to be sexually harassed at work too. You won't find that in the Constitution.
pittmike wrote:
Again, if the corp forbid them to get/use birth control then you would be right.
There is no right or wrong. It is factual. Obamacare granted them a right, and the courts took that right away today to protect the religious freedoms of a corporation. This isn't an opinion. It is simply what happened.

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTUS

Ok I guess I viewed it as Obamacare giving them a benefit not a right.

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