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Hobby Lobby and Religious People https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=87687 |
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Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Don't forget that it was also another major victory for corporations over individuals! |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Not Trolling |
Author: | W_Z [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
what a frustrating game. ghosts and goblins is the unholy fuckness of NES Capcom gaming. |
Author: | denisdman [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
BR, this was quite a bit different than Citizens United and the corporation is an individual decision. In this case, it was only for very closely held family companies with established religious beliefs (companies and owners are one in the same). This decision does not apply to public companies. In any case, we have such an expansive and intrusive government, and folks are pretty sick of it. This is simply a consequence of forcing private enterprises to pay for health care. The entire system is broken beyond belief. Ironically, the private employer health care system developed out of WWII government price controls. So sick. "Solve" one problem and create another. |
Author: | denisdman [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
W_Z wrote: what a frustrating game. ghosts and goblins is the unholy fuckness of NES Capcom gaming. You are right. I have it on my Arcade Legends Machine. Very tough. |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: BR, this was quite a bit different than Citizens United and the corporation is an individual decision. In this case, it was only for very closely held family companies with established religious beliefs (companies and owners are one in the same). This decision does not apply to public companies. Why would it only apply to some companies? What is to stop Comcast or IBM from declaring they are God warriors too?
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Author: | denisdman [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: denisdman wrote: BR, this was quite a bit different than Citizens United and the corporation is an individual decision. In this case, it was only for very closely held family companies with established religious beliefs (companies and owners are one in the same). This decision does not apply to public companies. Why would it only apply to some companies? What is to stop Comcast or IBM from declaring they are God warriors too?The decision would stop them. It said it only applied to very closely held family companies where the beliefs of the owners can be attributable to the company. In your example, Comcast, it has thousands of shareholders with divergent views. |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: The decision would stop them. It said it only applied to very closely held family companies where the beliefs of the owners can be attributable to the company. In your example, Comcast, it has thousands of shareholders with divergent views. If a large majority of the owners voted to call themselves a "Christian company" wouldn't it be the same thing?
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Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Krazy Ivan wrote: Not Trolling Actually it isn't. Just some levity. Thanks for playing. You definitely have prooved the justice of dog shit. |
Author: | W_Z [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
SomeGuy wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: Not Trolling Actually it isn't. Just some levity. Thanks for playing. You definitely have prooved the justice of dog shit. return to starting point. challenge again. |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
SomeGuy wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: Not Trolling Actually it isn't. Just some levity. Thanks for playing. You definitely have prooved the justice of dog shit. Thanks, pal! |
Author: | denisdman [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: denisdman wrote: The decision would stop them. It said it only applied to very closely held family companies where the beliefs of the owners can be attributable to the company. In your example, Comcast, it has thousands of shareholders with divergent views. If a large majority of the owners voted to call themselves a "Christian company" wouldn't it be the same thing?It is the way they wrote the decision. It's not my opinion, it is the Court's. "Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., writing for the majority, emphasized the ruling’s limited scope. For starters, he said, the court ruled only that a federal religious-freedom law applied to “closely held” for-profit corporations run on religious principles. Even those corporations, he said, were unlikely to prevail if they objected to complying with other laws on religious grounds." |
Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
W_Z wrote: what a frustrating game. ghosts and goblins is the unholy fuckness of NES Capcom gaming. One of the hardest and cheapest games ever made. Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: denisdman wrote: The decision would stop them. It said it only applied to very closely held family companies where the beliefs of the owners can be attributable to the company. In your example, Comcast, it has thousands of shareholders with divergent views. If a large majority of the owners voted to call themselves a "Christian company" wouldn't it be the same thing?It is the way they wrote the decision. It's not my opinion, it is the Court's. "Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., writing for the majority, emphasized the ruling’s limited scope. For starters, he said, the court ruled only that a federal religious-freedom law applied to “closely held” for-profit corporations run on religious principles. Even those corporations, he said, were unlikely to prevail if they objected to complying with other laws on religious grounds." It's still amazing to me that he could write something like that. It's the most mind boggling thing about it. Even he seems to think the decision is pretty illogical since he's basically saying "This wouldn't make sense in any other application". |
Author: | denisdman [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
I agree. It's a tangled web. See in my world, the Federal Government would not force a private corporation to pay for employee healthcare. Thus, I would never have to decide between forcing a Mormon run company to pay for one of its employee's morning after pills. It is a total conundrum, and the more we let government dictate stuff, the more it will intrude on someone's "rights". I don't know the answer anymore. The immigration thing has me baffled too. Syria and Iraq. How to deal with China. Climate change. I am struggling with it all. |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
SomeGuy wrote: Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. Can I use this as my mantra? |
Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Krazy Ivan wrote: SomeGuy wrote: Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. Can I use this as my mantra? For you? Anything. |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
SomeGuy wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: SomeGuy wrote: Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. Can I use this as my mantra? For you? Anything. |
Author: | W_Z [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
SomeGuy wrote: W_Z wrote: what a frustrating game. ghosts and goblins is the unholy fuckness of NES Capcom gaming. One of the hardest and cheapest games ever made. Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. never ever get the flame. get the knife. always. |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: I agree. It's a tangled web. See in my world, the Federal Government would not force a private corporation to pay for employee healthcare. Thus, I would never have to decide between forcing a Mormon run company to pay for one of its employee's morning after pills. It is a total conundrum, and the more we let government dictate stuff, the more it will intrude on someone's "rights". It's even tougher when you realize that the Democrats want total control of healthcare by the government, and the Republicans want none. Both of those options really suck.
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Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
W_Z wrote: SomeGuy wrote: W_Z wrote: what a frustrating game. ghosts and goblins is the unholy fuckness of NES Capcom gaming. One of the hardest and cheapest games ever made. Get the wrong weapon and it's game over. never ever get the flame. get the knife. always. I'm getting mad talking about it. Sometimes it's just unavoidable and you're forced to switch. Death soon follows. |
Author: | W_Z [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
and those fucking red devils... |
Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
W_Z wrote: and those fucking red devils... Yes, swoop down when walk over just the right pixel or the last step on the latter. No Gouda. |
Author: | Scorehead [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: BR, this was quite a bit different than Citizens United and the corporation is an individual decision. In this case, it was only for very closely held family companies with established religious beliefs (companies and owners are one in the same). This decision does not apply to public companies. In any case, we have such an expansive and intrusive government, and folks are pretty sick of it. This is simply a consequence of forcing private enterprises to pay for health care. The entire system is broken beyond belief. Ironically, the private employer health care system developed out of WWII government price controls. So sick. "Solve" one problem and create another. Change you can believe in... |
Author: | pittmike [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
denisdman wrote: BR, this was quite a bit different than Citizens United and the corporation is an individual decision. In this case, it was only for very closely held family companies with established religious beliefs (companies and owners are one in the same). This decision does not apply to public companies. In any case, we have such an expansive and intrusive government, and folks are pretty sick of it. This is simply a consequence of forcing private enterprises to pay for health care. The entire system is broken beyond belief. Ironically, the private employer health care system developed out of WWII government price controls. So sick. "Solve" one problem and create another. Golf clap. |
Author: | pittmike [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: denisdman wrote: I agree. It's a tangled web. See in my world, the Federal Government would not force a private corporation to pay for employee healthcare. Thus, I would never have to decide between forcing a Mormon run company to pay for one of its employee's morning after pills. It is a total conundrum, and the more we let government dictate stuff, the more it will intrude on someone's "rights". It's even tougher when you realize that the Democrats want total control of healthcare by the government, and the Republicans want none. Both of those options really suck.Yes Brick. But in order to avoid the problem you have been discussing with this case you have to have one or the other. Government healthcare as a right or None. Everyone decided the status quo was no good anymore. An Denis is absolutely right. There was no employer healthcare before WW2. Due to wage/price controls employers invented it to entice the best workers over fixed wages. So then we have the insurance monster born (then the lawyers). Imagine that even in our lifetimes when you had a kid in a hospital she stayed 5 days and the dad went and paid a $600 bill cash before she left the hospital. I am going to guess an aspirin (before Tylenol) was not $125 either. |
Author: | Brick [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hobby Lobby and Religious People |
pittmike wrote: Yes Brick. But in order to avoid the problem you have been discussing with this case you have to have one or the other. Government healthcare as a right or None. Everyone decided the status quo was no good anymore. An Denis is absolutely right. There was no employer healthcare before WW2. Due to wage/price controls employers invented it to entice the best workers over fixed wages. So then we have the insurance monster born (then the lawyers). Imagine that even in our lifetimes when you had a kid in a hospital she stayed 5 days and the dad went and paid a $600 bill cash before she left the hospital. I am going to guess an aspirin (before Tylenol) was not $125 either. You most certainly don't have to have one or the other.Government regulation, and some filling in of the holes by the government for catastrophic care, while keeping the private insurance industry is perfect. |
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