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DERRICK ROSE!
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Author:  JORR [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  DERRICK ROSE!
Even if he blows out his knee again tomorrow and never plays another game, he should get a statue for preventing the human turd known as Melo from destroying the Bulls franchise for the next ten years. Paxson and Forman should each give Rose half their salaries.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
He scored 13 points....wow! But he's a point guard and supposed to make others better and put others in position to succeed. He had 5 assists - when you can count the assists on one hand, it's not good. Oh, and he had 3 turnovers. A good point guard has an assist to turnover ratio of over 3.5. Chris Paul, guys like that commonly have a ratio of over 4 to 1. Derick Rose has always been amongst THE WORST in this area. He dribbles into double teams and throws passes at times after jumping (you learn not to do that in Jr. High) and in the Knicks game that 5/3 is a reflection of what he generally might accomplish, a 1.67 assist to turnover ratio. That ranks 38th in the league, or DEAD LAST amongst point guards. Probably because he's really an undersized 2 guard, playing the point. Shoutout denied!
Author:  Nas [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
He's a scoring PG that's still working his way back and he played about 18 mins last night. He'll be fine around February.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Nas wrote:
He's a scoring PG that's still working his way back and he played about 18 mins last night. He'll be fine around February.

He played 21 minutes. Had he played 35, he probably would have had another couple turnovers. Yes he's a scoring PG and I hate his game. A PG is supposed to make the whole teams offense run. His game is not that of a true PG. Never has been. I had hoped all the time off would have resulted in him gaining greater knowledge of the position and becoming a more complete PG. No such luck.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's a scoring PG that's still working his way back and he played about 18 mins last night. He'll be fine around February.

He played 21 minutes. Had he played 35, he probably would have had another couple turnovers. Yes he's a scoring PG and I hate his game. A PG is supposed to make the whole teams offense run. His game is not that of a true PG. Never has been. I had hoped all the time off would have resulted in him gaining greater knowledge of the position and becoming a more complete PG. No such luck.


:lol: Yes, there's ONE model for a point guard to be successful. No other way.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
leashyourkids wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's a scoring PG that's still working his way back and he played about 18 mins last night. He'll be fine around February.

He played 21 minutes. Had he played 35, he probably would have had another couple turnovers. Yes he's a scoring PG and I hate his game. A PG is supposed to make the whole teams offense run. His game is not that of a true PG. Never has been. I had hoped all the time off would have resulted in him gaining greater knowledge of the position and becoming a more complete PG. No such luck.


:lol: Yes, there's ONE model for a point guard to be successful. No other way.


A PG can be a significant scorer and have success. Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Isaiah Thomas are great examples. But they all had great assist to turnover ratios and their primary focus was on running the offense. They were not score-first guys. Guys like Allan Iverson (best comp to Rose) don't win Championships.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Jerry West was a shooting guard, dumbass. Jerry West was absolutely a score-first guy, and he was one of the best in history at it. Just go away, you don't know shit about basketball.
Author:  Darkside [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
Jerry West was a shooting guard, dumbass.

He's rolling.
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:
Author:  leashyourkids [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Positions are basically suggestions in today's game. It tells you roughly how tall a guy is. There are plenty of teams that won championships without having a true "point guard. " I can think of six of them right in Chicago. And two in Miami. And five in L.A.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
Jerry West was a shooting guard, dumbass. Jerry West was absolutely a score-first guy, and he was one of the best in history at it. Just go away, you don't know shit about basketball.


You are an idiot. I watched the Lakers when he was the point and #25 Gail Goodrich, from UCLA was the shooting guard. They were an outstanding backcourt. West was an off guard earlier in his career, but by the time I was watching him play, he had already switched to the point.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
leashyourkids wrote:
Positions are basically suggestions in today's game. It tells you roughly how tall a guy is. There are plenty of teams that won championships without having a true "point guard. " I can think of six of them right in Chicago. And two in Miami. And five in L.A.


My point was there has never been a team that I can remember that had a score-first point guard that led the team in scoring that won a Championship. Of course, given Rose's decline as a scorer, he may not lead the team in scoring either...But I do expect his scoring to pick up and that he will lead the team in scoring. But I also expect he will continue to be listed as amongst the worst in the league in assist turnover ratio.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Positions are basically suggestions in today's game. It tells you roughly how tall a guy is. There are plenty of teams that won championships without having a true "point guard. " I can think of six of them right in Chicago. And two in Miami. And five in L.A.


My point was there has never been a team that I can remember that had a score-first point guard that led the team in scoring that won a Championship. Of course, given Rose's decline as a scorer, he may not lead the team in scoring either...But I do expect his scoring to pick up and that he will lead the team in scoring. But I also expect he will continue to be listed as amongst the worst in the league in assist turnover ratio.

Except he's never been among the worst in the league at it. Try again.
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

He led the league in assists on a team that won 33 games in row with another score-first guard in the starting lineup with him. :lol:
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

Magic played center, so he wasn't a PG, right? Is that what we're going with here?
Author:  JORR [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
leashyourkids wrote:
Positions are basically suggestions in today's game. It tells you roughly how tall a guy is. There are plenty of teams that won championships without having a true "point guard. " I can think of six of them right in Chicago. And two in Miami. And five in L.A.


True, and I'm not even sure the positions really even tell you much about a guy's size anymore. The game seems to be headed toward having five 6'9" or 6'10" guys who all can handle it and shoot it and and are basically interchangeable. Those Bulls teams were somewhat like that when Rodman played center. But at the same time, you have a golden era of point guards like Williams, Paul, Westbrook, and a pre-injury Rose.

There was an entire era where what I would call a "true" point guard, meaning a guy who can really handle the ball with a high level of skill, wasn't really necessary in the NBA game. I don't follow the game that closely now, but I assume there has been a change- either in rules or stylistically- that has caused real point guards to come back into vogue. In the 70s and 80s there was no real ball pressure. You didn't need Marcus Haynes out there.
Author:  Nas [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first. There are very few elite pass first PG's in the NBA.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
spanky wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

He led the league in assists on a team that won 33 games in row with another score-first guard in the starting lineup with him. :lol:

Why is that funny? If you want to come out and say that Jerry West was not a score-first guard, just do it already. He absolutely was. And it's pretty obvious that he was a shooting guard. He played one season at point and the rest of his entire career as an SG.
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Nas wrote:
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first.

True, but he played a different position a few times so prepare for FF to shout you down.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
spanky wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

Magic played center, so he wasn't a PG, right? Is that what we're going with here?

You have it backwards. You're the one trying to argue that because someone played a position one time, they should be categorized by that position.

Might wanna quit while you're behind here.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.


He wasn't a point guard, West was. Hey, Rose is pretty entertaining as he makes some remarkable plays. But he doesn't do a very good job at running the offense and getting the ball to teammates in the best position to succeed. He dribbles into double teams far too often and gets trapped and a turnover is the result too often, for a guy who has been in the league too long to continue to make such mistakes. If they have any chance to trade him while he's healthy, they should jump on it, before he gets hurt again.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
spanky wrote:
Nas wrote:
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first.

True, but he played a different position a few times so prepare for FF to shout you down.

Again, you have the argument backwards. It's like debating a three year old.

Jerry West was a shooting guard. You think because he played point one season, that previous sentence isn't true.
Author:  JORR [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

Magic played center, so he wasn't a PG, right? Is that what we're going with here?

You have it backwards. You're the one trying to argue that because someone played a position one time, they should be categorized by that position.

Might wanna quit while you're behind here.


Magic is a bad example anyway. He was a special guy. It probably isn't fair to just label him a "point guard". There wasn't really anyone else like him.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Nas wrote:
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first. There are very few elite pass first PG's in the NBA.


Stockton, Thomas, Nash, Paul.....those are real point guards. The score first point guards win nothing.
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
http://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Jerry_West_a_point_guard

He led the league in assists one year :lol:

So did Wilt Chamberlain. Pretty sure he was score-first too.

He led the league in assists on a team that won 33 games in row with another score-first guard in the starting lineup with him. :lol:

Why is that funny? If you want to come out and say that Jerry West was not a score-first guard, just do it already. He absolutely was. And it's pretty obvious that he was a shooting guard. He played one season at point and the rest of his entire career as an SG.

It's funny because you immediately shouted somebody down and ridiculed their knowledge of the sport for saying he was PG (in true FF fashion) and said he was only a SG, even though some of his best years in the league were clearly as a PG.

Now you're saying he only played PG for one season (again incorrect) - yet earlier "he never played PG OMG YOU DON'T KNOW BASKETBALLL LOLOLOL!!!"

Maybe stop being so confrontational all the time? The good posts get blurred out with all the shouty and the insulty all the time.
Author:  Nas [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Stockton is still the best overall PG I've ever seen and he didn't win anything.
Author:  spanky [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
FavreFan wrote:
spanky wrote:
Nas wrote:
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first.

True, but he played a different position a few times so prepare for FF to shout you down.

Again, you have the argument backwards. It's like debating a three year old.

Always with the personal insults.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Nas wrote:
Magic was NEVER a score first PG. He could have monster scoring games but he looked to pass first. There are very few elite pass first PG's in the NBA.


Stockton, Thomas, Nash, Paul.....those are real point guards. The score first point guards win nothing.


Three of those guys have never won a championship.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DERRICK ROSE!
Nas wrote:
Stockton is still the best overall PG I've ever seen and he didn't win anything.


Besides Malone, he just didn't have enough to work with some years. Plus, there was that Jordan guy that got in the way when they did.
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