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Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=90657
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Author:  IMU [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

http://jalopnik.com/youre-not-paranoid- ... 1665415223

Fair. I'm okay with this.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?

Author:  Don Tiny [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

leashyourkids wrote:
"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?


Pretend there's a problem ... create a solution for that 'problem'.

Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

leashyourkids wrote:
"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?

Also, why are they trying to make weed zero tolerance but allow you to be somewhat drunk when driving? I'm pretty sure there are multiple studies suggesting, if not outright declaring, that weed is less dangerous to drive under the influence of than alcohol.

Author:  Chus [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

FavreFan wrote:
I'm pretty sure there are multiple studies suggesting, if not outright declaring, that weed is less dangerous to drive under the influence of than alcohol.


Score one for Team Weed.

Author:  Douchebag [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Chus wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm pretty sure there are multiple studies suggesting, if not outright declaring, that weed is less dangerous to drive under the influence of than alcohol.


Score one for Team Weed.

5 pages.

Batter up B-Rick.

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

leashyourkids wrote:
"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?



You are being silly. For the same reason that it is .08 rather than .10. Money. No one cares that most fatal DUI stuff is with stone cold drunks at .20 or higher.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Nataurly, that was my point.

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Q.Bovifs wrote:
pittmike wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?



You are being silly. For the same reason that it is .08 rather than .10. Money. No one cares that most fatal DUI stuff is with stone cold drunks at .20 or higher.

Ion-mobility spectrometry - isn't that pretty close to your area?

I would bet that somebody is going to make a fuckload of money developing a method to fool this detector.



Yeah but not cost effective (yet) and only shows the presence not a level. Not only is there no way to decide what your level is at time of arrest but blood test but I am not sure they have decided a level that is criminal like .08. There are a shit load of people about to be arrested and/or simply inconvenienced if they only go for "presence".

Author:  pittmike [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

I would guess it would be like a bonus for lawyers in the old DUI days when they could argue actual proof of inebriation?

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
"And in the four states where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use, there's a growing concern that loaded drivers running to 7-11 for another pint of Americone Dream is becoming an issue."

Why is this a problem unless there is data that shows increased accidents also?

Also, why are they trying to make weed zero tolerance but allow you to be somewhat drunk when driving? I'm pretty sure there are multiple studies suggesting, if not outright declaring, that weed is less dangerous to drive under the influence of than alcohol.
They aren't trying to make it zero tolerance. Right now, there isn't a test to detect levels so the choice is to either basically make it legal to drive as high as you can be or to do a test and then let it be argued in court based on other factors. If there was a better test then they'd probably treat it the same as alcohol. Sadly, there isn't yet but you should be thankful that they seem to be getting closer!

If someone is going way over the speed limit or driving recklessly and they are also high then they are probably getting in bigger trouble. I would hope that more evidence of impairment would be required than just this breathalyzer.

To your point about alcohol being more dangerous, that is a point saying we should increase enforcement and punishment for alcohol use that causes reckless behavior but it isn't a reason to ignore the current best methods of detecting other mind altering substances.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

If someone is going way over the speed limit or driving recklessly and they are also high then they are probably getting in bigger trouble. I would hope that more evidence of impairment would be required than just this breathalyzer..


of course there will be more evidence required
a blood test
so you'll be arrested based on a 'presence' , dragged to the station, given a blood test, forced to hire a lawyer, go to court, etc.
you know, innocent until proven guilty

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

If someone is going way over the speed limit or driving recklessly and they are also high then they are probably getting in bigger trouble. I would hope that more evidence of impairment would be required than just this breathalyzer..


of course there will be more evidence required
a blood test
so you'll be arrested based on a 'presence' , dragged to the station, given a blood test, forced to hire a lawyer, go to court, etc.
you know, innocent until proven guilty

Pretty much.

Author:  badrogue17 [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

You'll be lucky to make it that far in the process. Cop will probably just shoot during the traffic stop.

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

If someone is going way over the speed limit or driving recklessly and they are also high then they are probably getting in bigger trouble. I would hope that more evidence of impairment would be required than just this breathalyzer..


of course there will be more evidence required
a blood test
so you'll be arrested based on a 'presence' , dragged to the station, given a blood test, forced to hire a lawyer, go to court, etc.
you know, innocent until proven guilty
I didn't mean a blood test. I meant like a failed sobriety test or dash cam footage of erratic behavior. Something that shows not only did you have it in your system but that you were impaired.

With alcohol, it is easy. The amount in your system can be determined. It's harder for marijuana and that is both a blessing and a curse because logically you can't just ignore driving while high but it also makes it harder to prove.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I meant like a failed sobriety test or dash cam footage of erratic behavior. Something that shows not only did you have it in your system but that you were impaired.


so, something subjective and based on the cops opinion

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I meant like a failed sobriety test or dash cam footage of erratic behavior. Something that shows not only did you have it in your system but that you were impaired.


so, something subjective and based on the cops opinion
What is your solution?

Erratic driving caught on tape or a taped sobriety test along with a positive test seems to be a pretty good solution.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is your solution?


i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is your solution?


i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution
So driving while high isn't a problem?

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is your solution?


i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution
So driving while high isn't a problem?

I have never found it to be.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is your solution?


i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution
So driving while high isn't a problem?


i don't think it is, no
do you have some statistics to show me how many fatal injuries have been caused by someone DUI/weed ?

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than being you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.
Well, if you aren't driving erratically, and you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.


if you're going to continue to reference field sobriety tests you should at least acknowledge how ridiculous they are .....many of the ones in place now that are used for DUI are difficult to pass even while stone cold sober . there is very little scientific evidence to support their accuracy. they are pretty much only in place as a way to bolster an officer's evidence. i would LOVE to know the amount of people that "pass" a roadside sobriety test vs. the people that are subsequently arrested

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is your solution?


i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution
So driving while high isn't a problem?


i don't think it is, no
do you have some statistics to show me how many fatal injuries have been caused by someone DUI/weed ?
There are plenty of them, but as we see with everything, people start shouting "You can get high two weeks earlier and test positive!"

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than being you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.
Well, if you aren't driving erratically, and you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.

I'd agree with you. My fear is that since they actually have policies in place to not hire smart people to be cops, the average cop is not going to agree with us on this.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than being you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.
Well, if you aren't driving erratically, and you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.

I'd agree with you. My fear is that since they actually have policies in place to not hire smart people to be cops, the average cop is not going to agree with us on this.


my personal feeling is that by the time an officer has asked you to perform a sobriety test, he or she has already decided to arrest you

Author:  Brick [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.


if you're going to continue to reference field sobriety tests you should at least acknowledge how ridiculous they are .....many of the ones in place now that are used for DUI are difficult to pass even while stone cold sober . there is very little scientific evidence to support their accuracy. they are pretty much only in place as a way to bolster an officer's evidence. i would LOVE to know the amount of people that "pass" a roadside sobriety test vs. the people that are subsequently arrested
Come up with a better solution then.

Allowing people to drive no matter how high they are is not one.

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:

i don't really think this is a problem that requires a solution
So driving while high isn't a problem?


i don't think it is, no
do you have some statistics to show me how many fatal injuries have been caused by someone DUI/weed ?
There are plenty of them, but as we see with everything, people start shouting "You can get high two weeks earlier and test positive!"

How do you know it's being shouted through a message board. And is that not a logical, obvious rebuttal with how our current system is?

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pot-Detecting Breathalyzer

Bagels wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than being you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.
Well, if you aren't driving erratically, and you can pass a field sobriety test then I'd say you should be sent on your way.

I'd agree with you. My fear is that since they actually have policies in place to not hire smart people to be cops, the average cop is not going to agree with us on this.


my personal feeling is that by the time an officer has asked you to perform a sobriety test, he or she has already decided to arrest you

Right. And unlike with alcohol, at that point there really is no evidence of guilt or innocence either way. It's basically just the cops word. Of course, a good lawyer will probably easily get that thrown out, meanwhile a public defender won't give a fuck and poor people will end up pleading guilty. Don't we have enough laws targeting the poor already?

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