Right, but when we talk about a program there has to be certain things built in that put it on a level. Anyone can have a shitty coach. They get fired. For example, Purdue can have a great coach and go on great little runs and they have. They're good this season. But they'll always have a disadvantage in that a good coach at Indiana is almost always going to be able to pick the top kids in the state and leave Purdue with seconds. Sometimes the secondary guys turn out better. Once in awhile Purdue will be able to beat out Indiana and get the best guy. But overall Indiana has a built in advantage that Purdue doesn't and several bad Crean years doesn't erase that.

That's a disadvantage Illinois doesn't have. A top coach should be able to get more than enough of the top players in the state. But it has other disadvantages. In spite of the history, football is more important at Illinois. That's not the case with Indiana.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

If Illinois is a top program why does it have such a hard time getting a good coach? Iirc, the VCU guy picked VCU over Illinois. C'mon.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Saw last night Hoiberg may be talking to Illinois. Seems like a crazy rumor.

What does a "good coach" mean? Weber certainly had a good record. Groce has been a disappointment, but he was a hot guy at the time. If they got that Miller guy and were mediocre for the next four years would you say they couldn't get a coach? Shaka Smart is being led around by his wife. It's not just Illinois that he snubbed. I'm pretty sure he could have had the UCLA job among others. Personally, I think it was a mistake to fire Weber, but there are alumni politics involved. Some people think Illinois should be competing with Kentucky and Kansas. To me that's unrealistic. Weber averaging 22 wins a year wasn't enough so we had to go out to find some guy to turn us into Northwestern.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Last Illinois AD was cheap and a dick. No one wanted to take a job for that. Guenther was also cheap and wouldn't pay to keep his coaches.

The college game is probably where he belongs.

Hoiberg would be a great hire for Illinois, and maybe they could take Gar/Pax to be on staff.

But the Bulls could not get that lucky.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

JORR, you are out of your mind. I could name 50 schools that are more coveted than Illinois, and I could name another 15 mid-majors that are probably more coveted. I don't even know who the hell is in the Big 10 anymore, but Illinois would likely be 7th at best after only accounting for the Big 10 teams I remember:

Michigan
Michigan St.
Indiana
Wisconsin
Ohio St.
Purdue

Are all more prestigious positions than Illinois. Illinois is on par with Minnesota or Iowa. They caught lightning in a bottle in '89 and '05 (which were recruits obtained by a coach who was merely using Illinois as a stepping stone to go to Kansas and who was replacing a coach who used Kansas as a stepping stone to go to North Carolina). You're nuts, my old friend. Illinois is not a destination in any sport for a well-known coach.

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You could arguably throw Maryland in there ahead of Illinois at this point. Final four back to back years in 01/02, and a lot more recent success than Illinois.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

It's become on of the top golf schools in the nation the last ten years!

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

They're not "more coveted" though. At every one of those schools above except for Indiana and Purdue, basketball is an afterthought to football. If you really think Illinois is on par with Minnesota, we can't really have this discussion.

Indiana is the top basketball program in the Big 10, hands down. Maybe Michigan State has achieved a level that is higher than the others I'll mention and I'm not sure what to think about Maryland now that they're in a football conference.

I would say that Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Purdue, Wisconsin, and Ohio State are all about equal in terms of their basketball programs. But in terms of a "coveted" job for a head coach, Illinois should be the best job based on several built-in advantages. Right off the bat is power within the athletic department. At every place above except Purdue and Illinois, football is just overwhelmingly the king. (It probably would be king at Illinois too if they ever had a hope of consistently competing with Michigan and Ohio State. Those other schools have had just enough success to convince themselves that they can.) And for a coach who is recruiting, Purdue is always going to have to contend with Indiana in a basketball crazy state.

Newper is probably right about Maryland, but they did sell out their basketball legacy to chase football money in the Big 10. At one time Left Driesell was trying to fashion Maryland as the "UCLA of the East".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

There's a lot of "should" with Illinois that ultimately end up meaning nothing. Illinois needs more "is." Jose Quintana should be a winning pitcher too.

Here's my point. Illinois has a lot of built-in things that make it a good job. Of course, a guy has to go there and use the advantages that exist. I do agree with BRick that there is a different atmosphere in college basketball than there was in the 80s or really even 15 years ago. That's probably part of the problem. You have alumni that think Illinois should be competing with the ultra-elite programs. That's just not realistic. If you can consistently be in the top third of the conference and win a couple Big Ten championships every decade, that wouldn't be a guy I'd be unsatisfied with.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Rod Strickland?

Dan Dakich told a story about Bob Knight comparing different basketball programs and concluding that Illinois should be the best job in the Big Ten.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Knight basically says that in Feinstein's book from the late 80s.......

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I'm an IU guy and I DO believe they are the premiere destination in the Big Ten for basketball. Eventually you have to push for more than a Sweet 16 every other year. You have to be a final four team more often than every 15 years. Bobby Knight isn't walking thru that door. In his presser, the AD at Indiana seemed to think that anyone, anywhere was a possibility for the job. I'd love to think that Brad Stephens or Donovan are seriously thinking about it but that is absurd in reality. You can try to poach a guy from another high level program or you are stuck getting the flavor of the month mid major guy.

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Keatts to NC State

So does that mean Illinois now needs to go to a back up plan to their back up plan?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

This is starting to seem like Lovie's search for a Bears O.C.

Hello Tom Crean!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The more I read about this Brad Underwood guy, the more I think that they made a solid choice. Time will tell of course but
sounds like he likes running an up tempo offense and can flat out coach guys up. If he can keep the incoming recruits he may
have something to build on. It's not the big or sexy name but I am giving this guy my support and let's be honest it can't be
much worse than the last couple of seasons. He'll have a young roster, but if he can actually keep them in games even if they
lose, that would be an improvement.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Nobody ever believes us JORR.

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You know me like that.

What do you want us to believe you on Doc?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I don't know, I'd say any program outside the top 7 or 8 is a giant blob of good but not great.

A Giant Blob of Good was my campaign slogan for today's election.

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You know me like that.

Do I get to choose?

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You know me like that.

I believed you guys. Illinois is definitely one of the top 15 basketball jobs in the country.

Big time conference? Check
Basketball #1 sport on campus, football an afterthought? Check
In state access to the top high school talent base in the USA? Check
History of winning? Check (no titles, but plenty of deep runs in the tournament)


Name 15 other schools that can say all that?

As far as programs I would put ahead of Illinois, here's my list off the top of my head...


Kentucky
Kansas
UNC
Duke
Louisville
UCLA
Arizona
Michigan State
Syracuse
Indiana
Villanova

That's really about it.


But, the best part of that link is watching DePaul and San Francisco's race to the bottom. Currently at 48 and 49, I would love to see a graph of how far they've fallen in the past 30 years. Both were top 10 at one point, DePaul not that long ago.

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