A national power would have refs in their pocket and the benefit of calls.

Still nope.

You cant change the call now.

Im glad you enjoyed the loss. I enjoyed the game, too.

Looking from the other angle, a call on #7 is a pretty horrible call in that situation.

The call on #20 didn't really have an impact on the play. That looks like a mutual body hug but I think what hurts the ND guy there is that he does actually try to keep moving forward. He'd have been better off just letting the FSU guy hold onto him. That said, I understood why they called it on #20. But, I guess they didn't.

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You know me like that.

You and other people are the ones who want to reopen the analysis of whether the play was a penalty or not. I'm fine with using the result of the play as factually correct.
Sounds like we both had good days!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ill just assume that you havent looked at the alternate angle posted by Dr Ken that shows the difference.

Ill also assume you've missed the countless articles, interviews and blogs arguing about what you call a clear cut penalty. I guess a ton of people disagree with you.

Im just saying you cant say "well the other guy DID commit a foul" and it makes the original call right.


I think mine was probably a little better. Rooting for someone is always better than rooting against someone.

Love is better than Hate, ya know what Im sayin?

No it isn't. The ND WR is going right into a backing up defensive back. He doesn't have a right to run any route he wants. It was more questionable than the blatantly obvious other OPI but you can clearly tell the jobs of the two receivers on that play.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Notre Dame lost mostly because they couldn't stop Winston in the second half.


I think the call was ticky/tacky to flat out incorrect, but what are you gonna do?

Yeah, but I got the result I wanted. You have to try and rationalize the results instead of accepting that they deserved to lose.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I believe I made a post one or two above yours, not only admitting they deserved to lose, but detailing why.


Also rooting against a team is usually indicative of a deeper unhappiness with one's own team. So really, you've lost before you even start the hating.

So who cares about the last play then?

They deserved to lose. They did. The only reason to worry about a bad official call is if it cost you a game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The call was being discussed, so I commented on it.

...because another fan was acting like it cost them the game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hank hasnt been approving his posts with me lately

My team is horrible. I want Notre Dame to lose.
When they were good, I still wanted Notre Dame to lose. Don't get some of that classic ND arrogance please. I want Indiana to lose every game too. It's ok to root against teams.



Well, you also posted this article.

I missed the part where you said the coach was wrong for thinking that cost them the game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Isolating on those two players, #7 and the DB, if no other contact were occurring on that side of the field, a penalty on that contact in that situation would have been a horrible call.

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You know me like that.

I disagree. Its not arrogance. I think rooting against teams in general is kind of a losing point of view (Ive fallen victim to it myself at times with the Cardinals and Packers)



That was my response to you saying "Kelly knows it was a penalty" or whatever you said.

So now it has gone from questionable to a horrible call?

What both players did was worthy of a penalty in the context of that play. If the play was completely different then of course it may not have been a penalty.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course it is arrogance. It's the standard "You are jealous because you aren't ND" just said in a different way.
So Kelly was wrong right? You posted an article of a coach saying something you thought was wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course it is arrogance. It's the standard "You are jealous because you aren't ND" just said in a different way.[/quote]
It's absolutely not arrogance. I just know you root against them and was thinking about rooting against teams in general. Notre Dame hasnt even been that great in recent times to warrant jealousy.


Kelly brought up an interesting point about it being called on #7

But the reason I posted it was because I thought you were saying Kelly had essentially admitted it was a penalty.

Just own what you were saying about how sad it is to be a fan of my team instead of Notre Dame.

Ok, so this is another "I don't disagree with you but I'm going to go on for pages refuting you". My mistake.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What do you feel like arguing? Because you're bouncing back and forth.

I thought we were talking about the call being on #7, which I feel is a horrible call in that situation.

Now, you are saying it's a penalty because both ND guys were in the wrong but it wasn't a double-penalty. You can't contribute 40% to a penalty and #20 contributed 55% to a penalty with an additional 5% penalty on #67, so throw the flag on ND.

I don't care if it's a different play or this play. You call the penalty on the actions of the player. My thought experiment to isolate those actions is not my way of changing the play.

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You know me like that.

Rick, that is not at all what I was saying. I have been thinking recently about sportsfanhating and rooting against teams in general. Its not an ND thing.


But it seems that you wont just take my word at face value, so I guess you'll take it how you take it.

With how the play was run, it was a penalty on both players, though it was only called on one.

If the other guy isn't there pushing him from the very start, the whole play is different. It's like if an offensive lineman is downfield. Depending on the play, that can be legal or illegal. If the quarterback was running to the right, it would not have been a penalty. That is what I mean. Actions on a football field can be legal or illegal based on the other things that are happening.

If you are throwing a pass like that then the other WR's are not allowed to block like that. Both of them were wrong, though one was clearly more obvious with it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You were talking about me, not you. You said I lost just because I root against Notre Dame because of deeper unhappiness with my own team. How else would I take it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes, I said rooting against ANY team. Notre Dame is not special in this regard. I even gave other examples of me doing it.

Well, all I can say is that there are a lot of Notre Dame fans who will tell you to your face how special they are. If you were talking about the St. Louis Cardinals you picked a strange place to do it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not reading all of this, but I'll go with the die-hard Purdue fan as being the non-biased voice of reason in this thread.

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I guess I should just never talk sports on here.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Please please please please make this happen

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