Come on man. I'm posting the numbers there. To say they aren't recruiting Chicago and the suburbs when 50% of their recruits are from Chicago and the suburbs is just ignoring facts.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's it. Geography doesn't matter. Talent does. I think it is wrong to recruit Chicago for the sake of recruiting Chicago. That's kind of what they are doing now. They are recruiting guys that are playing above their level. They have signed mostly low major to mid majors. Some of those guys came from other states also. Montana Morgan is not a Chicago Kid. They signed another kid that transferred out following the season that was not a Chicago kid either. They also were not Big Ten caliber players either.

They didn't even recruit Tyler Ulis but they signed Jaylen Tate. The Snyder kid was from Louisville and decided to stay home. They recruited a two top twenty kids from Texas last year and both turned them down. ONe was named Evans and the other was 6'9 power forward who also dissed them. This notion that they are strongly recruiting Chicago is false. They tried to sign the Murray kid out of Canada and he also dissed them.

They have a line in with Simeon but they are not signing the top players out of Simeon. D.J. WIlliams was the 3rd or 4th best player on his own team last year. He was hyped as top ten kid freshman year and it never panned out for him.

The Cosby kid (Not Bill) was a transfer that they signed from Seton Hall that wasn't really good either. He played last year and transferred after the season. They are trying to get the "Non Chicago" guy and that is not really working either.

Jaylen Tate should be playing at UIC. I don't think he is UIC caliber. I think McClain is going to dramatically improve that program.

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You are going back to the non Groce era also. Some of the Chicago guys on this years team are walk-ons and one is a transfer. I really don't count the suburbs unless it is a suburb that is right outside of CHicago. I counted Brown because he is a Chicago kid and even East is on the Chicago Boundary.

i'm mostly referring to Public and Catholic leagues guys out of CHicago.

I will look at some of the other yrs you have listed and go through the roster. This is a good debate and it is one that has been hashed out over the years. I don't think the answer is to completely ignore Chicago when you have so much talent coming out of this city.

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The problem with that is they still have a lot of recruits with Chicago listed as their hometown. That means that almost no schools recruit Chicago kids.

They recruit Chicago and the suburbs a lot. It doesn't really seem to be working.

To use my school as an example, they are actually closer to Chicago than UofI, and yet they have a very small amount of players from there, and most are recruiting for a specific reason that makes it logical like a family connection.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If your basketball program recruits St. Ignatius, you know you suck.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Oh, for the days of Art Aaron and Gaddis Rathel!

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

They have conceded the top guys out of Chicago. Rose, Davis, Okafor, Parker are guys anyone would love to have. They were not in the running for any of them. One of my best friends is responsible for their Chicago recruiting. He is the only one that handles CHicago. The other guys are from out of state and they handle out of state recruiting. I'm with you on expanding to other states and they have tried to do that. That have had less success recruiting out of state than they have in state. Their out of state signees haven't been that good. The Coleman kid from La Lumiere prep school in Indiana is supposed to be a keeper though.

They have actively recruited out of state guys the last 2-3 years and they haven't been able to sign them.

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As they should. It's dumb to chase them unless there is a major reason to make an exception. Build up your program and then sell a top flight recruit on being the missing piece rather than throwing hail marys at elite recruits to come to your school and be a savior.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Counzo Martin went to California and signed to NBA guys right off the bat. That is the best way to do it. You need to make a splash.

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This is an interesting debate. Are there recent examples of a single coach gradually building his program by progressively augmenting the number of highly-ranked high school players he recruits? Or is it more common for new coaches--if they are going to win big--to achieve recruiting success as soon as they are hired?

I think the latter is much more common than the former.

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That's kind of how Knight did it. He recruited a certain type of player. When he went after that special guy, the Thomas, the Buckner, the Grunwald, he almost always got him.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

At your big time schools it is difficult to do that. That is the problem that Groce is facing. He has solid program building kind of guys on the roster. Malcolm Hill, Kendrick Nunn, Jalen Coleman, Jordan are all solid pieces. They are not program changers. Illinois needs program changers. They consistently miss on those guys. They can recruit guys ranked 50-80 fairly well. A top notch recruiter is able to secure players simply by virtue of his ability to recruit.

Its difficult to do it at your big time schools because you will not be afforded the luxury of time. Groce has not made it through his first class of recruits and people are already calling for his head. He has only had 3 recruiting classes.

The days of building slowly are over. There is an instant gratification to this now. If you look at the top twenty recruiting classes this year, you will find programs listed on ESPN's top 20 that have coaches that haven't been on the job very long. These are also programs that aren't considered to be traditional powers either.

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Yeah, to some degree the idea of a "mid-major" is a thing of the past. The very top programs, i.e. Duke, Kentucky, NC, Kansas, etc. are more powerful than ever, but the line between the next tier programs like Illinois, Purdue, Stanford, Texas, etc. and what we once called mid-majors seems to have been obliterated.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

Texas is a little different though. Texas under Barnes signed a number of blue chip type kids. You look at their recruiting classes during the past 10-12 yrs and they're awfully impressive. It is definitely a system of haves and have nots. I agree with you on that.

College Basketball is just different than it used to be. There are a number of mid major programs that have sort of ascended to the upper echelon of programs over the past 10-15 years. Gonzaga, Wichita State, Villanova, come immediately to mind but there are others. They do not get the 1 and done types but they get guys that are fringe NBA guys and work with that. These guys stick around for 3-4 years and develop each year that they are in the program. By the time they they are juniors and seniors you really have something. Their experience and talent allows them to compete with schools that are primarily headed by 1 and dones. I like that approach also. The key is that you have to recruit the type of kids that will be late bloomers. In addition to being a late bloomer is that you have to see pro potential in them. Otherwise you are just recruiting kids that will be in your program without ever accomplishing anything basketball wise.

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Best part about watching the Illini tonight is the fact Rafferty is calling the game.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Watched the second half of the game last night. Going to be a very long season with this team. I pray that they still have an outside
shot of salvaging the season when they return all the guys that are injured but I am pretty sure it will be too late by that point. I
honestly feel bad for Groce but I think he will end up getting the hook halfway though the Big Ten schedule. Once they hire a new
AD he'll want to hire his own football and basketball guys.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Thorne out for season after tearing knee against Iowa State this weekend. I don't suspect there will be much action in this thread the rest of the season.
It's over folks. Based on the Athletic Dept maybe Groce will get a contact extension.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Milwaukee signed Rod Thorne if that means anything.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Is anybody healthy left? If they didn't have Thorne, they would have lost to Chicago State.

They will be lucky to finish at .300 in the Big Ten conference play.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Typical Illini move. They are dispatching one of their assistants out to Proviso Tournament in order to take a look at the 6'11 kid out of St. Joseph. They haven't really recruited the kid in 3 yrs and now they are coming in at the 11th hr to make a last ditch play for him. He provided a list of his top 10 schools. DePaul on it, Illinois not. They may end up getting the kid but it's unlikely.

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Rakocevic was very highly recruited early in his career and still has a number of offers. He's having a heck of a senior year but looks a little thin to play C in the Big Ten or otherwise.

He can be a four in the big ten. He didn't have a helluva junior yr but he also played with two high major guards that dominated the ball.

Illinois wasn't in on him because of that but now they are coming in as he is having a monster season. They tend to do this a lot. They are always late to the party. It says something about their ability to evaluate talent. He has always been regarded as a high major talent yet they are just now attempting to recruit him.

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Illini visit Michigan State tonight for a primetime game on ESPN. I think they are about two touchdown underdogs.
I'll probably watch some of the first half just to see how they look but I am not expecting too much. One plus for ILL is
the fact that Valentine still isn't back and the Spartans haven't looked very good their last few outings.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Not something normally said in college sports:

Kendrick Nunn did not make the trip to East Lansing to be there for the birth of his first child.

A pro would have planned it better but it's probably a health care coverage thing.

Thanks Obama.

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You know me like that.

I didn't end up tuning in. I see this morning that was a solid choice on my part. I have been more supportive to Groce than most but even I have
my bags packed and waiting for a safe place to jump off the Groce wagon.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Can you just go down to Student Death and deliver a baby at UI?

U of I has major problems to contend with. Things might get better in a decade. Until then, it's going to be a rough ride.

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"going to be"

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You know me like that.

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