It is currently Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:31 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
shakes wrote:
So you think it's wrong that I included Robinson's freshman year when comparing him to a guy who only played his freshman year? :roll:

Also, we are talking about the best college players we've ever seen...that means a career, not a single season.

And even if we just used Robinson's soph year vs Zion he is still WAY behind Zion as a player.
We aren't talking about who the best freshman ever was. We are talking about who the best player was. It's valid to compare them when they were at their best.

So now Robinson is WAY behind Zion? :lol:

shakes wrote:
brick wrote:
Robinson:
30.3 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.6 spg, .9 bpg,
Zion:
22.5 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.1 apg, 2.1 spg, 1.7 bpg


:lol: :lol: that's cute that you are using raw stats to make your argument.

Here are some really interesting stats for you:

Big Dog .523efg%
Zion .710efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%

It's really not even close. What Zion is doing on an efficiency level puts him on a totally different level from Big Dog.
You do understand how flawed those statistics are too correct?

Here is an example.
Big Dog .523 efg%
Zion .710 efg%
Mystery Player 3 .685 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 3 .712 TS%

Mystery Player 3 must be better than Big Dog too and pretty close to Zion. It turns out it is Steve Scheffler. That isn't just a cherry picked example. The leaders in efg% and ts% are not the best players in college basketball. I mean, Tacko Fall compares with those numbers too.

shakes wrote:
:lol: :lol: Teammates have no bearing on this discussion. Zion would dominate at this level no matter who he played for. It's not like he is getting open looks because his teammates are spreading the floor and demanding attention from defenders. And you overrate Zion's teammates. The only other allstar on the team is Barret. The other so called all stars are both overrated freshman who had mediocre years and can't shoot.

Name all the players around the country who average 22ppg while being as efficient as Zion?
You are making a strawman argument. Zion is great. He's one of the best I've ever seen. That doesn't change the fact that Big Dog was better in the year he won player of the year.

Duke does have an all star team. Take Zion off the team. They are still as good or better than any other team in college basketball. Are you honestly arguing that Duke isn't filled with talent?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72375
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man


Are you already stoned this morning?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's
Duke was 3-3 without Zion when you count the UNC game he got hurt in the first 15 seconds .

_________________
Nardi wrote:
Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man


Are you already stoned this morning?


I don't know why, but :lol:

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72375
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man


Are you already stoned this morning?

Hatchet, what point do you think you are making here?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72375
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
leashyourkids wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man


Are you already stoned this morning?


I don't know why, but :lol:

You know why

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
I have no issue with marijuana cigarettes. It was just funny coming from Hatchetman.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You do understand how flawed those statistics are too correct?

Here is an example.
Big Dog .523 efg%
Zion .710 efg%
Mystery Player 3 .685 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 3 .712 TS%

Mystery Player 3 must be better than Big Dog too and pretty close to Zion. It turns out it is Steve Scheffler. That isn't just a cherry picked example. The leaders in efg% and ts% are not the best players in college basketball. I mean, Tacko Fall compares with those numbers too.


:lol: :lol: :lol: someone do Brick a favor and teach him about usage and how that relates to stats. Maybe then he won't embarrass himself by trying to compare high efficient low usage players to guys like Zion and Big Dog.



Brick wrote:
You are making a strawman argument. Zion is great. He's one of the best I've ever seen. That doesn't change the fact that Big Dog was better in the year he won player of the year.

Duke does have an all star team. Take Zion off the team. They are still as good or better than any other team in college basketball. Are you honestly arguing that Duke isn't filled with talent?


:roll: :roll: now you don't understand what strawman means. Let me ask you, who's the strawman here., the guy who brought teammates into the discussion or the guy who is pointing out how that doesn't matter?

You're the ONLY person in this entire thread to try and belittle a player because he played with other good players. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion of who the best college players of all time were.

You're also the only person in this entire thread to try and claim that we should only use a specific year from a player as opposed to their entire career.

I really don't think you understand what strawman means cause that's all you've been doing in this thread.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
how awesome is this, I'm totally kicking Brick's ass in an argument!


Best day ever.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man
He said 22 ppg at the end making a different point. I was simply pointing out the flaw of just using TS% and EFG% like he did.

If we are going to start also giving credit for ppg, well, 30.5 > 22.5.

However, how about this.

Big Dog .523efg%
Zion .710efg%
Mystery Player 4 .616 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 4 .652 ts%

Mystery Player 4 averaged 27.6 over 4 years.


Now, this one is slightly different because it's more about how the player would be somewhere in between Big Dog and Zion. Mystery Player 4 is Doug McDermott.

Don't get me wrong. If Zion returned, he would probably have the best efg% in history(with Tacko Fall being second) but we can't just cherry pick that statistic and an arbitrary point minimum to make a case. To make it easier for you to understand imagine if the case was being made for DeAndre Jordan since he is the career NBA leader in ts% and efg%.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
Hatchetman wrote:
Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.



:lol: :lol: and Brick's got this retard on his side.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point :lol:


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man
He said 22 ppg at the end making a different point. I was simply pointing out the flaw of just using TS% and EFG% like he did.

If we are going to start also giving credit for ppg, well, 30.5 > 22.5.

However, how about this.

Big Dog .523efg%
Zion .710efg%
Mystery Player 4 .616 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 4 .652 ts%

Mystery Player 4 averaged 27.6 over 4 years.


Now, this one is slightly different because it's more about how the player would be somewhere in between Big Dog and Zion. Mystery Player 4 is Doug McDermott.

Don't get me wrong. If Zion returned, he would probably have the best efg% in history(with Tacko Fall being second) but we can't just cherry pick that statistic and an arbitrary point minimum to make a case. To make it easier for you to understand imagine if the case was being made for DeAndre Jordan since he is the career NBA leader in ts% and efg%.


stop embarrassing yourself Brick.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:29 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79336
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Is the Mystery Player Rick Mount?

_________________
Don't take it personally.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
shakes wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: someone do Brick a favor and teach him about usage and how that relates to stats. Maybe then he won't embarrass himself by trying to compare high efficient low usage players to guys like Zion and Big Dog.
So what is the criteria here? You cited ts% and efg%. Now, you seemingly have a usage rate qualifier. It isn't my fault that you keep on adding qualifiers.

So, how about you give me the statistics that matter, and then we can compare Big Dog, Zion, and other similar players to see if it makes sense. You can't act like you have some magic formula that proves your point without a doubt and then it makes a case that Doug McDermott was also a far better college player than Big Dog.

shakes wrote:
:roll: :roll: now you don't understand what strawman means. Let me ask you, who's the strawman here., the guy who brought teammates into the discussion or the guy who is pointing out how that doesn't matter?
Are you serious? Teammates don't matter? Do you say the same thing for Ja Morant?

shakes wrote:
You're the ONLY person in this entire thread to try and belittle a player because he played with other good players. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion of who the best college players of all time were.
Belittle? Overdramatic much?

shakes wrote:
You're also the only person in this entire thread to try and claim that we should only use a specific year from a player as opposed to their entire career.
Once again, the question is the best college basketball player you've seen. It isn't who had the best total career. Robinson is considered one of the greats of all time because of his sophomore year. He averaged a double double and 30 points a game.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
shakes wrote:
stop embarrassing yourself Brick.
Was Doug McDermott a better college player than Big Dog?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Doug McDermott was pretty damn good.

Zion is overrated, though.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
Brick you already lost, you're done. Game over. Syanora. Arrieviderchi. Bon Voyage, Bon jour, Shalom mother fucker.



No need to continue responding to your strawman nonsense. It's over bitch ass. Still love ya, just excited that I kicked your ass so thoroughly in a message board argument.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
shakes wrote:
Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.


I have never seen Rick do this before.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16786
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!
leashyourkids wrote:
shakes wrote:
Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.


I have never seen Rick do this before.


agreed, that's why it's embarrassing that he is doing it now.

_________________
LTG wrote:
Trae Young will be a bust. Book It!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
shakes is like the guy who was knocked out in the ring, everyone left the auditorium, woke up and figures he won.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
shakes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
shakes wrote:
Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.


I have never seen Rick do this before.


agreed, that's why it's embarrassing that he is doing it now.


:lol:

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 10462
pizza_Place: Investigating
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
I'm the only one to see Kareem and Walton?

I saw Walton play one of the tournament games on TV his final year, so I guess 1974. But I cannot remember any thoughts on him or any of the other players. I wanted UCLA to lose. They always won. That's all I remember.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
shakes wrote:
Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.
You are the one that acted like you had some magic formula. When it says that Doug McDermott was also a better player than Big Dog you have to explain why the magic formula is still a good one.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72375
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Hatchetman wrote:
Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.

Jesus Christ. And you think I’m stoned? Stop being an idiot and reread the last several posts for context.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
shakes wrote:
Brick you already lost, you're done. Game over. Syanora. Arrieviderchi. Bon Voyage, Bon jour, Shalom mother fucker.



No need to continue responding to your strawman nonsense. It's over bitch ass. Still love ya, just excited that I kicked your ass so thoroughly in a message board argument.
:lol: Says the guy that literally won't even type the words Doug McDermott because of how it makes his argument look horrible.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91811
Location: To the left of my post
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.

Jesus Christ. And you think I’m stoned? Stop being an idiot and reread the last several posts for context.
Since shakes won't answer, what is the magic formula here? efg% + ts% + ????

It's especially interesting because efg% and ts% only primary difference is free throw shooting.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72375
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.

Jesus Christ. And you think I’m stoned? Stop being an idiot and reread the last several posts for context.
Since shakes won't answer, what is the magic formula here? efg% + ts% + ????

It's especially interesting because efg% and ts% only primary difference is free throw shooting.

There is no magic formula. Stop being obtuse.

Look at every available data point on a player and come to a reasonable conclusion. That means SPG and BPG. It means EFG and TS%. It definitely means Usage rate. You liked to bring up how good Zion's teammates are. Not only did shakes debunk that, but the flip side to the coin is that having better players around you means you're asked to do less. If Zion was on Creighton when McDermott was I think it's very reasonable to project him to score more than 28 ppg considering his usage and efficiency on a much better team.

Also, like leash said, McDermott was a very good college player so that sorta undermines your point a bit.

But mainly the Steve Scheffler and Tacko examples were beyond ridiculous. Regardless of how little one knows about basketball stats, common sense should have come in to play before you submitted those examples.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group