With big pockets.
Doesn't seem to effect football. Fitzgerald has a competitive deal.
This is a minor issue.
This is an issue, but no place is perfect.
Yeah, being in Chicago is a HUGE disadvantage. Selling a kid on going to West Lafayette or Iowa City is so much easier.
Academics are used to recruit at Northwestern. Still, this is a choice. It would be like if Illinois decided to only recruit players from the state of Illinois.
Who cares?
Huh?
Yeah, they are used to HELP recruiting.
Northwestern arrogance here.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

"Not recruiting like OSU" is not a disadvantage that is unique. OSU recruits better than anyone in the Big Ten except Michigan.
Every other team in the Big Ten, except Michigan, loses to OSU in recruiting pretty often. That would be like saying "Not being Alabama" is a disadvantage. Northwestern could start accepting kids with 0.0 high school GPA's and they aren't out recruiting OSU either.

Go read any article on a new recruit at Northwestern. What do they mention? They mention how great of a school it is and how they can prepare you for life and the quality of the education is top notch. When Fitz does his infomercials on the Score he is constantly selling the same thing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Those are all pretty weak responses. Are you truly trying to suggest that OSU doesn't have more money, big alumni, bigger stage, monstrously bigger athletic budget, bigger (and better) stadium, bigger fanbase, doesn't have to compete with a pro team for local fans, a winning history, lower academic standards, bigger national alumni base (especially in major recruiting areas)???

I see you are trying to BRick me into a discussing by trying to provide counterpoints... its just that they don't hold water. OSU has EVERY advantage over NU except for perhaps one. The value of a NU degree is probably worth more... unfortunately VERY few top level talent care about that.

Ultimately, are you trying to argue that NU is on an even playing field with OSU as a football program? If you are, then I'm really at a loss with how to proceed in a logical discussion.

OSU has this ass-hat.

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Northwestern is using it to their advantage though. That is undeniable. There are quality recruits who signed on to Northwestern for those reasons. To throw a pity party for yourself because of how tough it is to get recruits because of academics while getting recruits because of academics is not logical.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That argument would only hold water if you had something to back it up with. Show me how it is working then? What is the win-loss in recruiting vs. a school like OSU? I can tell you that we're probably at 5%. I know of one guy on the current roster that turned down a Buckeye offer.

OSU has advantages over all but a handful of schools nationwide.Besides Michigan no one in the Big Ten is on an even playing field.

My point is that the Northwestern "disadvantages" are no better or worse than Iowa, or Wisconsin, or Purdue.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why does anyone argue with BRick? It's like howling at the moon.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Why are you so hung up on OSU? Very few schools beat OSU in recruiting more than once in a while.

If by "disadvantages" you mean that Northwestern is just like the rest of the Big Ten besides Michigan then I agree. Michigan and OSU dominate the conference in general.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Let me make this simple.

Northwestern is no different than most of the Big Ten, or most of the non-powers of the BCS conferences. They have some disadvantages. They have some advantages. They struggle to compete with the historical powers of the conference. For Big Ten teams, it is OSU and Michigan. For the SEC, it is Alabama and LSU and Florida. For the Pac 12, it is USC and more recently Oregon.

Now, if Northwestern was the third best team in the conference overcoming the other disadvantaged schools but unable to compete with OSU and Michigan because of "academic standards" and the "worst stadium" then I'd be understanding. However, every time NU loses a game all of a sudden we start to hear about how tough it is to be Northwestern and how impressive it is they had a lead against Ohio State. You don't hear Michigan State or Iowa fans doing the same thing even though they also are at a disadvantage to OSU and Michigan.

Now, Northwestern does have the strictest academic standards in the Big Ten. However, Northwestern is actively using that to recruit people so it's hard to feel bad for them when they are selling kids on not going to Iowa because of the quality of education.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok... I'll stop arguing now. Since you're changing the initial question to fit your needs... I see I'm in a no win situation.

The initial question:

You then made it all about Northwestern vs. OSU. I was talking about the conference as a whole since you were talking about the conference as a whole.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I wouldn't say no better or worse but it's not the enormous obstacle it's being made out to be. Wisconsin & Michigan State for the most part have made a living out of maximizing 3-star talent.

- Are you willing to concede that academic requirements are indeed a disadvantage (regardless of the program's attempt at spinning it otherwise)?

- Are you willing to concede that NU has the second lowest athletic budget in the conference?

- Are you willing to concede that NU has some of the worst facilities in the B1G?

- Are you willing to concede that our alumni base is smallest in the coference?

- Are you willing to concede that it is more difficult to generate interest in a college football program in a town that is religiously dedicated to its pro-sports team?

- Are you willing to concede that we have the 10th most alumni in the B1G in proximity to our stadium?

- Are you willing to concede that we don't have Kiniseology majors or as many "football majors" as in other programs than the other conference teams might hurt us in recruiting?

- Are you willing to concede that Northwestern's history and Division 1 losing streak is a hindrance in competing for talent (I know other schools use this against us all the time)?

- Are you willing to concede that having a small (and scattered) alumni and being in a pro sports town hurts attendance much more so than every other school in the conference.... and that is used consistently as a recruiting tool by our competition?


I'm not sure about you, but those look to me support that Northwestern has MANY disadvantages versus its conference foes. You might argue differently, but its crystal clear to me... and pretty crystal clear to most rationale human beings.

Like I said before, our only advantage might be the value of a NU degree, but that is almost never a consideration for the 4 and 5 star talents who have NFL stars in their eyes.

I'll stop there... because I know the BRick spin machine is revving up.

I really can't argue this any clearer. If you think Northwestern doesn't have more disadvantages than most big football programs, as well as other second tier programs, I'm not really sure we are speaking the same language.

I could make a list just as long and accurate for Illinois.

I do reject your thoughts that being close to Chicago is a negative. As someone who asks a coach to recruit players to come spend 4-5 years in the middle of cornfields in Indiana I can't think that there are a lot of players saying "Chicago? Nah, they like pro sports too much. I'd much rather go to some place where the locals spend weekends feeding the livestock and watering the corn".

If Northwestern sucks so much to go to, why did you go there?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Are you asking that because you know I am a former player? Because, while I might have the appearance of a plucky Steve Schnur, that wasn't me. I actually didn't choose Northwestern for its football program. In fact, I chose it DESPITE its football program.

My intention wasn't to get in a fight over Northwestern's obvious disadvantages... my point was simply that I was genuinely impressed by their performance. And I did genuinely enjoy the game. Maybe that is a moral victory, but I'm good with that.

I dunno about MUD, but I went there for all the hot chicks.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I get itchy when two of the more prominent college football fans go at it.

I also got itchy when I realized I was rooting for the same team Brent Musberger was rooting for. That doesn't happen often.

I'm asking because you seem to only post bad things about Northwestern. There have to be some good reasons to go to Northwestern. You paint a picture like no football player would ever actually want to go to Northwestern.

If there was a football player in your neighborhood who wanted to play in the Big Ten, would you steer them to Illinois because of the many negatives associated with Northwestern football? Would you tell them to go to Illinois and avoid Northwestern football for the reasons you state?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I understand where MUD is coming from but I lean more toward what Rick is saying.

NU disadvantages were more pronounced 15 years ago or more when it seemed that you could never win there. That perception is in the past. Most of these kids weren't born when NU was a lost program.

Now that they have had some success, kids don't think you go there to lose. NU has successfully begun to market their advantages of which being in Chicago is huge. "Hey kid, would you like to live on Lake Michigan and be an El ride from downtown Chicago or live here by the South Farms? Don't worry the pig shit smell generally blows away from campus."

NU is about even with other Big Ten programs in their ability to recruit. There are still good players that value a great education and NU is an attractive program for them because they know they can win. That wasn't the case 20 years ago.

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My Maserati does 186.

Pardon me if this has been covered, but what is the difference between Stanford and NW?

Pretty girls, sunny skies, billionaire alums, and a 90-year history of a commitment to athletic excellence. Other than that, not too much.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

What's being lost in this macro discussion is the micro that an experienced and offensively talented NU team blew a 10 point lead in 4Q at home and the fans give them a pat on the back for just showing up.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

What's the issue? They competed well and made Braxton Miller look so bad they contemplated putting in the backup. While i agree that Fitzgerald may not necessarily be all that he is cracked up to be he does have the program competitive year after year. Besides, its been Ohio State and everyone else for a while now in the Big Ten and may continue to be that way with Urban Meyer at the helm . No one is contesting the fact that Ohio State is going to beat everyone until their game against Michigan, and i think they even win that.

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NIU Football:
2011, 2012, & 2014 MAC Football Champions

Carlos Hyde was getting 6 yards per carry... didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the Cats were gonna have to put more points on the board. OSU's defense showed up when it had to.

Just showing up? I think they did more than that. The pat on the back is basically an expectations thing. I can only speak to my thoughts... I thought NU was gonna get ass raped on national TV. The line was 7... and without that stupid TD at the end, NU beat the spread. Everyone I knew that either bets or is in a college pick'em was giving the points on that game.

I couldn't agree more. No one thinks anyone else is gonna win the B1G except dOSU, so for the Cats to hang with them for 3 1/2 quarters, I'm pretty pleased. As a college football fan, that was an amazing game. Close... lots of lead changes... a couple controversial moments... and a few interesting story lines.

I don't think we are picking on Northwestern. It's more that it is hard to have sympathy for them when most of the rest of us root for programs who face a similar amount of obstacles especially when a good portion of Northwestern's obstacles are voluntary choices they make. Add in the fact that Northwestern is 26-31 in the Big Ten under Fitzgerald and you are going to get some blowback when you make it seem like Northwestern is overcoming monumental odds to be competitive in the Big Ten.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!