It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:31 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 12559
Location: Ex-Naperville, Ex-Homewood, Now Tinley Park
pizza_Place: Oh I'm sorry but, there's no one on the line
Assuming that the Big 12 continues to exist and that most of the team shuffling is over, we'd have 12 teams in the Big Ten and you'd probably want to split that into two different conferences. I'm bored, so I'm going to try to align them competitively and geographically. My goal here is to preserve conference rivalries (specifically football):

North: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

You'd play each team in your division, and there would be one cross division opponent that would be constant each year: Michigan/Ohio State; Michigan State/Penn State; Nebraska/Indiana; Iowa/Illinois; Minnesota/Northwestern; Wisconsin/Purdue. The other three opponents would rotate from the other five available on a yearly basis.

This would eliminate only two rivalry games: Minnesota/Penn State - Governor's Victory Bell; and Indiana/Michigan State - Ol' Brass Spittoon. The Victory Bell hasn't been around very long, and neither of these have traditionally been very competitive matchups. In any event, the longest the teams wouldn't meet would be one year, so they'll still be able to have the award.

This also preserves a fairly good balance between the conferences. I took the conference wins over the past 8 years and total them by conference. I did not introduce Nebraska into this equation. The proposed North had an average of 34.2 victories over the 8 year period, while the South had an average of 36.2 victories. If you lean towards more recent times, however, you'll see that the North is a bit weaker due to the poor recent performance of Michigan, but placing Nebraska in that conference raises up their stature overall.

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 6302
Location: Calumet City
pizza_Place: Johns in Cal City
newper wrote:
Assuming that the Big 12 continues to exist and that most of the team shuffling is over, we'd have 12 teams in the Big Ten and you'd probably want to split that into two different conferences. I'm bored, so I'm going to try to align them competitively and geographically. My goal here is to preserve conference rivalries (specifically football):

North: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

You'd play each team in your division, and there would be one cross division opponent that would be constant each year: Michigan/Ohio State; Michigan State/Penn State; Nebraska/Indiana; Iowa/Illinois; Minnesota/Northwestern; Wisconsin/Purdue. The other three opponents would rotate from the other five available on a yearly basis.

This would eliminate only two rivalry games: Minnesota/Penn State - Governor's Victory Bell; and Indiana/Michigan State - Ol' Brass Spittoon. The Victory Bell hasn't been around very long, and neither of these have traditionally been very competitive matchups. In any event, the longest the teams wouldn't meet would be one year, so they'll still be able to have the award.

This also preserves a fairly good balance between the conferences. I took the conference wins over the past 8 years and total them by conference. I did not introduce Nebraska into this equation. The proposed North had an average of 34.2 victories over the 8 year period, while the South had an average of 36.2 victories. If you lean towards more recent times, however, you'll see that the North is a bit weaker due to the poor recent performance of Michigan, but placing Nebraska in that conference raises up their stature overall.


Worst idea ever. You can't split up Ohio State and Michigan.

East: PSU, OSU, Michigan, Mich St., Indiana, Purdue
West: Ill, NU, Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Neb.

_________________
STU-GOTZ wrote:
Well Mac told me to to tell you to go FUCK YOURSELF!!! ..So now it's been said .. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm
Posts: 16923
I wonder if Wisconsin will now get their baseball program back because of the addition of Nebraska. If not there will be 11 teams in the conference and one team will be on bye during conference play. Not sure how that is going to work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:16 pm
Posts: 3414
pizza_Place: Gino's East.
Bad idea. I love going to Ann Arbor with my kids to:

1. Eat a Zingerman's pastrami sandwich

2. Watch NU beat Michigan.

3. Laugh at the fans who taunted us before kick-off.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:35 pm
Posts: 18202
Location: Headed to the 19th hole
pizza_Place: Kaisers
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
newper wrote:
Assuming that the Big 12 continues to exist and that most of the team shuffling is over, we'd have 12 teams in the Big Ten and you'd probably want to split that into two different conferences. I'm bored, so I'm going to try to align them competitively and geographically. My goal here is to preserve conference rivalries (specifically football):

North: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin
South: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

You'd play each team in your division, and there would be one cross division opponent that would be constant each year: Michigan/Ohio State; Michigan State/Penn State; Nebraska/Indiana; Iowa/Illinois; Minnesota/Northwestern; Wisconsin/Purdue. The other three opponents would rotate from the other five available on a yearly basis.

This would eliminate only two rivalry games: Minnesota/Penn State - Governor's Victory Bell; and Indiana/Michigan State - Ol' Brass Spittoon. The Victory Bell hasn't been around very long, and neither of these have traditionally been very competitive matchups. In any event, the longest the teams wouldn't meet would be one year, so they'll still be able to have the award.

This also preserves a fairly good balance between the conferences. I took the conference wins over the past 8 years and total them by conference. I did not introduce Nebraska into this equation. The proposed North had an average of 34.2 victories over the 8 year period, while the South had an average of 36.2 victories. If you lean towards more recent times, however, you'll see that the North is a bit weaker due to the poor recent performance of Michigan, but placing Nebraska in that conference raises up their stature overall.


Worst idea ever. You can't split up Ohio State and Michigan.

East: PSU, OSU, Michigan, Mich St., Indiana, Purdue
West: Ill, NU, Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Neb.


They would almost certainly split up Michigan and Ohio State so that when both programs are
peaking again they would meet for a conference championship game. Also, I just don't see them
putting Penn St., Ohio St, and Michigan all in the same division.

_________________
Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:18 pm
Posts: 4503
Location: connoisseur of women's non-revenue sports
pizza_Place: I vehemently disagree
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Worst idea ever. You can't split up Ohio State and Michigan.

East: PSU, OSU, Michigan, Mich St., Indiana, Purdue
West: Ill, NU, Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Neb.


I think you can split up dOSU and scUM... just have a protected inter-divisional game. Nor problem with that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 1559
pizza_Place: Barracco's in The EP.
Would these alignments hold up for Hoops too?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92040
Location: To the left of my post
mel junior wrote:
Would these alignments hold up for Hoops too?
No divisions for basketball. 18 games can be split up pretty much any way possible as long as they have some teams only play 1 time.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 12559
Location: Ex-Naperville, Ex-Homewood, Now Tinley Park
pizza_Place: Oh I'm sorry but, there's no one on the line
T-Bone wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Worst idea ever. You can't split up Ohio State and Michigan.

East: PSU, OSU, Michigan, Mich St., Indiana, Purdue
West: Ill, NU, Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Neb.


They would almost certainly split up Michigan and Ohio State so that when both programs are
peaking again they would meet for a conference championship game. Also, I just don't see them putting Penn St., Ohio St, and Michigan all in the same division.

Totally agree T-Bone. I'm splitting off Michigan and locking in the Michigan-Ohio State battle each year which should satisfy the majority of demands. I hope they don't overly imbalance the conferences, but whatever they end up doing, they'll be pissing someone off.

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 16779
pizza_Place: Little Caesar's
Big Ten Wolfpac: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin
Big Ten Hollywood: Michigan State, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 12559
Location: Ex-Naperville, Ex-Homewood, Now Tinley Park
pizza_Place: Oh I'm sorry but, there's no one on the line
Colonel Angus wrote:
Big Ten Wolfpac: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin
Big Ten Hollywood: Michigan State, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue

Big Ten NXT: Northern Illinois, Ball State, Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Bowling Green

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 6302
Location: Calumet City
pizza_Place: Johns in Cal City
You must align geographically to reduce costs for all the other sports.

You can't align to "make things even". The Big 12 was never even. SEC is rarely even.

_________________
STU-GOTZ wrote:
Well Mac told me to to tell you to go FUCK YOURSELF!!! ..So now it's been said .. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92040
Location: To the left of my post
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
You must align geographically to reduce costs for all the other sports.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only sports that go into divisions are the ones that don't play enough games in order to play everyone. I just googled Big East volleyball, which has 16 teams like basketball, and they have no divisions.

I think that football will be the only Big 10 sport to go to divisions.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:18 pm
Posts: 4503
Location: connoisseur of women's non-revenue sports
pizza_Place: I vehemently disagree
I'm pretty sure BR is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 12559
Location: Ex-Naperville, Ex-Homewood, Now Tinley Park
pizza_Place: Oh I'm sorry but, there's no one on the line
Image
See Boston College all the way up there? They are in the same division as Florida State, all the way down there. Why is Maryland not in the same division as Virginia? Surely they must realign soon because of costs to their football programs.

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:50 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 pm
Posts: 12448
Just food for thought. Here are three overly simplistic Conference divisions. First, East and West. Then North and South. Finally, based on the winning percentage and overall wins historically, both alternating for balance. We'll also try a couple others for fun.

1. East and West - Indiana/Illinois border becomes the dividing line (basically Chicago)

East

Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue

West

Northwestern
Wisconsin
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

2. North and South - Again, Chicago is basically the dividing line here, but the teams are far more spread out.

North

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Michigan
Penn State
Northwestern

South

Iowa
Purdue
Ohio State
Nebraska
Illinois
Indiana

3. Historical Divisions - All Time Wins by program, alternating between divisions

Big

Michigan
Ohio State
Minnesota
Michigan State
Purdue
Northwestern

Ten

Nebraska
Penn State
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana

4. Winning % All Time, alternating divisions

Big

Michigan
Nebraska
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Iowa
Northwestern

Ten

Ohio State
Penn State
Minnesota
Purdue
Illinois
Indiana

5. By Rivalry in an attempt to keep the top rivalries together. This setup retains Ohio State vs. Michigan, Ohio State vs. Penn State, Michigan vs. Penn State, Michigan vs. Michigan State, Ohio State vs. Illinois, and Illinois vs. Northwestern in one Division. In the other, it preserves Wisconsin vs. Iowa, Wisconsin vs. Minnesota, Purdue vs. Indiana, and then new rivalries involving Nebraska vs. Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

Big

Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Illinois
Penn State
Northwestern

Ten

Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Purdue
Indiana

6. Power Rankings Divisions - Based on College Football Live's preseason top 25.

Big

#2 Ohio State
#9 Nebraska
#19 Penn State
Michigan
Purdue
Northwestern

Ten

#8 Iowa
#11 Wisconsin
Michigan State
Minnesota
Illinois
Indiana


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:18 pm
Posts: 4503
Location: connoisseur of women's non-revenue sports
pizza_Place: I vehemently disagree
I thought this was good commentary too... although frankly I don't think geography should be a consideration.

Commentary: Potential Big Ten Divisional Alignments
by Jonathan Hodges

The Big Ten has now officially expanded to 12 teams, and in the press conference announcing the addition of Nebraska, Big Ten commissioner Delany essentially confirmed that a conference championship game for football will be coming. And, it will be coming soon, with Nebraska poised to officially join the conference beginning with the 2011 season.

Now comes the interesting task of dividing the conference into divisions of some sort in order to facilitate that conference championship game while keeping in mind things like geography and rivalries. Delany made it clear that potential divisions would have to keep in mind the following items, in order of importance:

1. Competitive Balance.
2. Rivalries, noting that some are more important than others.
3. Geography.

Noting those, let's move into the most established criteria, rivalries. One major assumption is that Big Ten expansion is complete, which Delany indicated it is for now, although that could very well change tomorrow.


Rivalries

Given the comment that some rivalries are more important than others, the "rivalries" within the Big Ten have been broken into three tiers, and I only expect that the first tier will be respected in divisional alignment to ensure that the teams play each year. Note that for some of the rivalries listed, the teams may not even play every year under the current format, since each team currently has only two "protected rivals" that they play every season.

Tier I (must-have, 7): Michigan - Ohio State (no explanation needed), Michigan - Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy), Indiana - Purdue (Old Oaken Bucket), Illinois - Northwestern (Land of Lincoln Trophy), Iowa - Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale), Iowa - Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy), Minnesota - Wisconsin (Paul Bunyan's Axe).

Tier II (consideration given, 7): Michigan State - Penn State (Land Grant Trophy), Illinois - Ohio State (Illibuck), Michigan - Minnesota (Little Brown Jug), Indiana - Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon), Illinois - Purdue (Purdue Cannon), Minnesota - Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell), Ohio State - Penn State (current protected rivalry).

Tier III (current protected rivalries not likely to be considered, 2): Northwestern - Purdue, Illinois - Indiana.

Also, it's important to consider potential rivalries for the newest addition, Nebraska.

Potential Nebraska Rivals (3): Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin.

It's clear that not all rivalries can be allowed to continue annually, but the must-haves as well as at least one new rivalry game for Nebraska should be able to be accommodated. The rest will continue, but not on an annual basis, like Michigan - Minnesota or Indiana - Michigan State are currently.


Geography

If geography were the only factor, an East-West split would be the most logical, with the conference spread out wider (1,088 mi from Nebraska to Penn State) than it is tall (640 mi from Minnesota to Indiana). And it would "just make sense" to group schools together geographically, right? The Big XII and SEC do it now (North-South and East-West, respectively).

Realistically, though, a purely geographic split doesn't make that much a difference for the schools travel-wise, since divisions are largely a football-only construct. In other sports (including basketball), teams typically will play everyone at least once (in basketball, they may play everyone in their division twice while playing the others only once), so it won't make that big of a difference. Note that the ACC, also with 12 teams and a championship game, does not have a purely geographic split (instead calling their divisions Atlantic and Coastal).

Also note that when creating divisions, each team may have a protected "rival" in the other division that they play every year, which is something currently done in the ACC and previously done in the SEC.


Competitive Balance

This area was noted by Delany to be the most important, and logically so since it was one reason for the downfall of the Big XII. In recent years, it seemed as though all of the on-field success was focused on the Big XII South (Texas and Oklahoma), with the championship game essentially being just a roadblock on their quest for a BCS game and/or national championship.

It is clear that the Big Ten would like to maintain balance so that a championship game will usually be evenly matched and will help truly crown a conference champion. There will always be trouble with such a format, but the conference would like to minimize the issues as much as possible.

For this purpose, I've ranked the teams from highest to lowest total winning percentage over the last 10 years (2000 through 2009 seasons), and also listed the Big Ten winning percentage over the last 10 years with rank (excluding Nebaska), the all-time total winning percentage with rank, and the all-time Big Ten winning percentage with rank.

1. Ohio State (0.803), L10 conf = 0.800 (1st), all-time = 0.694 (2nd), all-time conf = 0.696 (2nd)
2. Wisconsin (0.667), L10 conf = 0.550 (5th), all-time = 0.542 (7th), all-time conf = 0.475 (8th)
3. Nebraska (0.656), L10 conf = 0.833 (*), all-time = 0.687 (3rd), all-time conf = 0.535 (4th*)
4. Michigan (0.653), L10 conf = 0.663 (2nd), all-time = 0.719 (1st), all-time conf = 0.722 (1st)
5. Iowa (0.640), L10 conf = 0.613 (3rd), all-time = 0.513 (9th), all-time conf = 0.457 (10th)
6. Penn State (0.626), L10 conf = 0.563 (4th), all-time = 0.673 (4th), all-time conf = 0.602 (3rd)
7. Purdue (0.540), L10 conf = 0.513 (6th), all-time = 0.515 (8th), all-time conf = 0.493 (6th)
8. Northwestern (0.500)**, L10 conf = 0.475 (7th), all-time = 0.418 (11th), all-time conf = 0.365 (11th)
9. Minnesota (0.500)**, L10 conf = 0.375 (9th), all-time = 0.558 (6th), all-time conf = 0.479 (7th)
10. Michigan State (0.496), L10 conf = 0.400 (8th), all-time = 0.566 (5th), all-time conf = 0.510 (5th)
11. Illinois (0.381), L10 conf = 0.325 (10th), all-time = 0.496 (10th), all-time conf = 0.461 (9th)
12. Indiana (0.333), L10 conf = 0.225 (11th), all-time = 0.402 (12th), all-time conf = 0.318 (12th)

*Nebraska has not played any intra-conference games as a member of the Big Ten and has faced just six Big Ten teams from 2000-2009.
**Northwestern and Minnesota tied for overall winning percentage over the past 10 seasons, but Northwestern was given the tiebreaker due to a better conference winning percentage over the same time period.

Also, since 2000, the Big Ten Championships break down as follows (counting co-Championships):
Ohio State (6)
Michigan (3)
Penn State (2)
Iowa (2)
Illinois (1)
Northwestern (1)
Purdue (1)


Purely Geographic Proposal:

East: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
West: Northwestern, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska

This proposal makes the most geographic sense and protects all seven "Tier I" rivalries (as well as three of seven "Tier II" rivalries). In terms of competitive balance, when looking at the past 10 seasons, the winning percentage averages are as follows (note that these are not precisely weighted, but give one a good idea):

East: 0.575 overall, 0.527 conference, 12 titles
West: 0.557 overall, 0.468 conference (not counting Nebraska), 4 titles

While the overall winning percentages were fairly close, the conference records and titles are skewed to the East, as one would expect with Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan all on that side. While Wisconsin and Iowa have held their own over this period and Northwestern has been consistently decent, it is not enough to overcome the top-heavy East.

Although this division makes the most sense, it will likely be nixed due to competitive balance.


Charter-Expansion Proposal

Charter: Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Expansion: Nebraska, Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan State

Geographically, it's a mish-mash, but if one wants to account for competitive balance, that will likely have to go out the window anyways.

In terms of rivalries, on its face it only keeps two "Tier I" and five "Tier II" rivalries. But if one permits one "protected inter-division rivalry" for each team, that number can increase to five "Tier I," although the "triangle rivalry" between Iowa-Minnesota-Wisconsin would have to be broken up, and, most importantly, this would create significant problems for Michigan as it must play Ohio State and Michigan State each season.

Charter: 0.540 overall, 0.484 conference, 6 titles
Expansion: 0.592 overall, 0.520 conference, 10 titles

Finally, the winning percentages are still skewed, in favor of the expansion schools, even if it is relatively close. Due to this as well as the rivalry issue, this proposal definitely won't work.


"Separate the Powers" Proposal

"Old" Powers: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
"New" Powers: Nebraska, Penn State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern

Geographically, it works out pretty well except for Penn State being with all of the teams in the west. Again, if one wants competitive balance, geography will have to be the first to go.

For rivalries, the only "Tier I" that is split up is Northwestern-Illinois, which can be a designated annual "protected" game. There are other rivalries also available to designate as such, and maybe some new ones that can be created.

"Old": 0.534 overall, 0.488 conference, 11 titles
"New": 0.598 overall, 0.515 conference, 5 titles

Although this division seems to be a little more equal between divisions, one could argue it's not as equal within divisions, particularly in the "Old" Power, where the bottom-feeders of the past decade all fall (MSU, Illinois, and Indiana).


Pods Proposal

Pod A (Northeast): Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State (0.651 overall, 0.621 conference, 9 titles)
Pod B (Southeast): Penn State, Purdue, Indiana (0.500 overall, 0.434 conference, 3 titles)
Pod C (Northwest): Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa (0.602 overall, 0.513 conference, 2 titles)
Pod D (Southwest): Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois (0.512 overall, 0.400 conference, 2 titles)

Geographically, these are fair groupings. They also keep all seven "Tier I" rivalries intact and have a chance to foster some new ones. And competitively, they are relatively fair (trying to keep Ohio State and Michigan together will always create problems). This would separate most of the top traditional powers (OSU, PSU, Michigan, Nebraska), and the one pod without a traditional power has Wisconsin and Iowa, two teams with a lot of recent success.

How would the pods work? Each team plays the others within its pod every season, and each pod will play two other pods every year. Prior to every season the pods would have to be grouped together (the pods grouped together must play each other) to create quasi-divisions for the purpose of sending champions to the title game.

The nice thing about this proposal is it would create flexibility with divisions, allowing them to be rotated every season. Pod membership could even be shuffled on a periodic basis for the purpose of competitive balance (albeit one would have to respect the rivalry games).

Unfortunately, random chance has a significant factor in this setup, as getting to the conference championship game would have a lot to do with which pods each team faces as well as which pods are grouped together to form quasi-divisions.


Conclusion

In my opinion, I believe we'll see something very similar to the Purely Geographic Proposal, since it just makes sense. The question will be if the competitive balance is acceptable or if it requires some shuffling (see "Separate the Powers" Proposal). I doubt that we'll see something more exotic ("Pods" Proposal), but given the large number of requirements, it may take something like that to make this all work. In any case, we'll find out in less than a year, with all of this going into effect for the 2011 season (meaning the schedule will have to be announced well in advance).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 16779
pizza_Place: Little Caesar's
Quote:
Pod D (Southwest): Nebraska, Northwestern
:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:17 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 pm
Posts: 12448
My_name_1s_MUD wrote:
I thought this was good commentary too... although frankly I don't think geography should be a consideration.

Commentary: Potential Big Ten Divisional Alignments
by Jonathan Hodges

The Big Ten has now officially expanded to 12 teams, and in the press conference announcing the addition of Nebraska, Big Ten commissioner Delany essentially confirmed that a conference championship game for football will be coming. And, it will be coming soon, with Nebraska poised to officially join the conference beginning with the 2011 season.

Now comes the interesting task of dividing the conference into divisions of some sort in order to facilitate that conference championship game while keeping in mind things like geography and rivalries. Delany made it clear that potential divisions would have to keep in mind the following items, in order of importance:

1. Competitive Balance.
2. Rivalries, noting that some are more important than others.
3. Geography.

Noting those, let's move into the most established criteria, rivalries. One major assumption is that Big Ten expansion is complete, which Delany indicated it is for now, although that could very well change tomorrow.


Rivalries

Given the comment that some rivalries are more important than others, the "rivalries" within the Big Ten have been broken into three tiers, and I only expect that the first tier will be respected in divisional alignment to ensure that the teams play each year. Note that for some of the rivalries listed, the teams may not even play every year under the current format, since each team currently has only two "protected rivals" that they play every season.

Tier I (must-have, 7): Michigan - Ohio State (no explanation needed), Michigan - Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy), Indiana - Purdue (Old Oaken Bucket), Illinois - Northwestern (Land of Lincoln Trophy), Iowa - Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale), Iowa - Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy), Minnesota - Wisconsin (Paul Bunyan's Axe).

Tier II (consideration given, 7): Michigan State - Penn State (Land Grant Trophy), Illinois - Ohio State (Illibuck), Michigan - Minnesota (Little Brown Jug), Indiana - Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon), Illinois - Purdue (Purdue Cannon), Minnesota - Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell), Ohio State - Penn State (current protected rivalry).

Tier III (current protected rivalries not likely to be considered, 2): Northwestern - Purdue, Illinois - Indiana.

Also, it's important to consider potential rivalries for the newest addition, Nebraska.

Potential Nebraska Rivals (3): Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin.

It's clear that not all rivalries can be allowed to continue annually, but the must-haves as well as at least one new rivalry game for Nebraska should be able to be accommodated. The rest will continue, but not on an annual basis, like Michigan - Minnesota or Indiana - Michigan State are currently.


Geography

If geography were the only factor, an East-West split would be the most logical, with the conference spread out wider (1,088 mi from Nebraska to Penn State) than it is tall (640 mi from Minnesota to Indiana). And it would "just make sense" to group schools together geographically, right? The Big XII and SEC do it now (North-South and East-West, respectively).

Realistically, though, a purely geographic split doesn't make that much a difference for the schools travel-wise, since divisions are largely a football-only construct. In other sports (including basketball), teams typically will play everyone at least once (in basketball, they may play everyone in their division twice while playing the others only once), so it won't make that big of a difference. Note that the ACC, also with 12 teams and a championship game, does not have a purely geographic split (instead calling their divisions Atlantic and Coastal).

Also note that when creating divisions, each team may have a protected "rival" in the other division that they play every year, which is something currently done in the ACC and previously done in the SEC.


Competitive Balance

This area was noted by Delany to be the most important, and logically so since it was one reason for the downfall of the Big XII. In recent years, it seemed as though all of the on-field success was focused on the Big XII South (Texas and Oklahoma), with the championship game essentially being just a roadblock on their quest for a BCS game and/or national championship.

It is clear that the Big Ten would like to maintain balance so that a championship game will usually be evenly matched and will help truly crown a conference champion. There will always be trouble with such a format, but the conference would like to minimize the issues as much as possible.

For this purpose, I've ranked the teams from highest to lowest total winning percentage over the last 10 years (2000 through 2009 seasons), and also listed the Big Ten winning percentage over the last 10 years with rank (excluding Nebaska), the all-time total winning percentage with rank, and the all-time Big Ten winning percentage with rank.

1. Ohio State (0.803), L10 conf = 0.800 (1st), all-time = 0.694 (2nd), all-time conf = 0.696 (2nd)
2. Wisconsin (0.667), L10 conf = 0.550 (5th), all-time = 0.542 (7th), all-time conf = 0.475 (8th)
3. Nebraska (0.656), L10 conf = 0.833 (*), all-time = 0.687 (3rd), all-time conf = 0.535 (4th*)
4. Michigan (0.653), L10 conf = 0.663 (2nd), all-time = 0.719 (1st), all-time conf = 0.722 (1st)
5. Iowa (0.640), L10 conf = 0.613 (3rd), all-time = 0.513 (9th), all-time conf = 0.457 (10th)
6. Penn State (0.626), L10 conf = 0.563 (4th), all-time = 0.673 (4th), all-time conf = 0.602 (3rd)
7. Purdue (0.540), L10 conf = 0.513 (6th), all-time = 0.515 (8th), all-time conf = 0.493 (6th)
8. Northwestern (0.500)**, L10 conf = 0.475 (7th), all-time = 0.418 (11th), all-time conf = 0.365 (11th)
9. Minnesota (0.500)**, L10 conf = 0.375 (9th), all-time = 0.558 (6th), all-time conf = 0.479 (7th)
10. Michigan State (0.496), L10 conf = 0.400 (8th), all-time = 0.566 (5th), all-time conf = 0.510 (5th)
11. Illinois (0.381), L10 conf = 0.325 (10th), all-time = 0.496 (10th), all-time conf = 0.461 (9th)
12. Indiana (0.333), L10 conf = 0.225 (11th), all-time = 0.402 (12th), all-time conf = 0.318 (12th)

*Nebraska has not played any intra-conference games as a member of the Big Ten and has faced just six Big Ten teams from 2000-2009.
**Northwestern and Minnesota tied for overall winning percentage over the past 10 seasons, but Northwestern was given the tiebreaker due to a better conference winning percentage over the same time period.

Also, since 2000, the Big Ten Championships break down as follows (counting co-Championships):
Ohio State (6)
Michigan (3)
Penn State (2)
Iowa (2)
Illinois (1)
Northwestern (1)
Purdue (1)


Purely Geographic Proposal:

East: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
West: Northwestern, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska

This proposal makes the most geographic sense and protects all seven "Tier I" rivalries (as well as three of seven "Tier II" rivalries). In terms of competitive balance, when looking at the past 10 seasons, the winning percentage averages are as follows (note that these are not precisely weighted, but give one a good idea):

East: 0.575 overall, 0.527 conference, 12 titles
West: 0.557 overall, 0.468 conference (not counting Nebraska), 4 titles

While the overall winning percentages were fairly close, the conference records and titles are skewed to the East, as one would expect with Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan all on that side. While Wisconsin and Iowa have held their own over this period and Northwestern has been consistently decent, it is not enough to overcome the top-heavy East.

Although this division makes the most sense, it will likely be nixed due to competitive balance.


Charter-Expansion Proposal

Charter: Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Expansion: Nebraska, Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan State

Geographically, it's a mish-mash, but if one wants to account for competitive balance, that will likely have to go out the window anyways.

In terms of rivalries, on its face it only keeps two "Tier I" and five "Tier II" rivalries. But if one permits one "protected inter-division rivalry" for each team, that number can increase to five "Tier I," although the "triangle rivalry" between Iowa-Minnesota-Wisconsin would have to be broken up, and, most importantly, this would create significant problems for Michigan as it must play Ohio State and Michigan State each season.

Charter: 0.540 overall, 0.484 conference, 6 titles
Expansion: 0.592 overall, 0.520 conference, 10 titles

Finally, the winning percentages are still skewed, in favor of the expansion schools, even if it is relatively close. Due to this as well as the rivalry issue, this proposal definitely won't work.


"Separate the Powers" Proposal

"Old" Powers: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
"New" Powers: Nebraska, Penn State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern

Geographically, it works out pretty well except for Penn State being with all of the teams in the west. Again, if one wants competitive balance, geography will have to be the first to go.

For rivalries, the only "Tier I" that is split up is Northwestern-Illinois, which can be a designated annual "protected" game. There are other rivalries also available to designate as such, and maybe some new ones that can be created.

"Old": 0.534 overall, 0.488 conference, 11 titles
"New": 0.598 overall, 0.515 conference, 5 titles

Although this division seems to be a little more equal between divisions, one could argue it's not as equal within divisions, particularly in the "Old" Power, where the bottom-feeders of the past decade all fall (MSU, Illinois, and Indiana).


Pods Proposal

Pod A (Northeast): Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State (0.651 overall, 0.621 conference, 9 titles)
Pod B (Southeast): Penn State, Purdue, Indiana (0.500 overall, 0.434 conference, 3 titles)
Pod C (Northwest): Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa (0.602 overall, 0.513 conference, 2 titles)
Pod D (Southwest): Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois (0.512 overall, 0.400 conference, 2 titles)

Geographically, these are fair groupings. They also keep all seven "Tier I" rivalries intact and have a chance to foster some new ones. And competitively, they are relatively fair (trying to keep Ohio State and Michigan together will always create problems). This would separate most of the top traditional powers (OSU, PSU, Michigan, Nebraska), and the one pod without a traditional power has Wisconsin and Iowa, two teams with a lot of recent success.

How would the pods work? Each team plays the others within its pod every season, and each pod will play two other pods every year. Prior to every season the pods would have to be grouped together (the pods grouped together must play each other) to create quasi-divisions for the purpose of sending champions to the title game.

The nice thing about this proposal is it would create flexibility with divisions, allowing them to be rotated every season. Pod membership could even be shuffled on a periodic basis for the purpose of competitive balance (albeit one would have to respect the rivalry games).

Unfortunately, random chance has a significant factor in this setup, as getting to the conference championship game would have a lot to do with which pods each team faces as well as which pods are grouped together to form quasi-divisions.


Conclusion

In my opinion, I believe we'll see something very similar to the Purely Geographic Proposal, since it just makes sense. The question will be if the competitive balance is acceptable or if it requires some shuffling (see "Separate the Powers" Proposal). I doubt that we'll see something more exotic ("Pods" Proposal), but given the large number of requirements, it may take something like that to make this all work. In any case, we'll find out in less than a year, with all of this going into effect for the 2011 season (meaning the schedule will have to be announced well in advance).



True. The rivalry model makes the most sense to me, but it is likely to get tweaked. It keeps the rivalries mostly intact and is fairly geographic. Is it imbalanced? Maybe a bit, but not much. Ohio State is going to play Michigan and Penn State every season anyway, due to rivalries, so you should just stick them in the same division and build around that. Here is the scenario:

Big

Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Illinois
Penn State
Northwestern

Ten

Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Purdue
Indiana

They can work out division names, but balance is fairly good. Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State will have to counteract Nebraska, Iowa, and Wisconsin. Minnesota, Purdue and Indiana will have to balance out Michigan State, Illinois, and Northwestern.

Swap a team in the middle or two, but the core power teams are pretty much on the outer fringes of the Conference except Wisconsin, and they are already in the West where they would need to be. Tough to move Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State to another division since they need to play each other annually anyway, and since they are three easternmost teams in the league.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group