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Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=54811 |
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Author: | Irish Boy [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
College football season is over, which means life sucks. I figured I'd look back at my thoughts/opinions from before the season and check where I ended up. First, my projected rankings: Quote: Ohio State, MSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Purdue, Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota I'm calling this is solid B+. I had Wisconsin a little too low, but I do think OSU was the best team in the Big Ten. I was one of the few people to predict PSU would be very mediocre, so yay me. Iowa 4th, which I think was also against the grain. My biggest mistakes were Purdue, which perhaps was because of injuries, although they weren't exactly rolling before Marve, et al. went out; Indiana, who I thought would be stronger but really regressed; Northwestern, which more on that later; and Illinois, where I wanted to pick them higher but felt I was being too homerish. Specific posts on teams to follow. |
Author: | Irish Boy [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Michigan: Quote: This year appears to be even better for Michigan, but to call that a success is to pick up the story from 2010, rather than following it back to 2007. Whatever the merits of the 2010 Wolverines or Rodriguez as a coach, the idea that early struggles would pay late dividends seems quite fanciful today. The best case scenario for this year cannot be more than 8-4, not when games against Ohio State, Penn State, and Notre Dame all come on the road. Add in home games against top-15 outfits Wisconsin and Iowa, and the Wolverines will have to flip a probable loss into a win just to hit that best-case number. Factor in deceivingly tough games against Uconn and road trips to Indiana and Purdue, and the case for 8 wins becomes even tougher. Even the “obvious” wins on the schedule may be anything but; Illinois has just as many regular season wins as Michigan over the last two years, yet Illinois won by 25 points in their matchups against the Wolverines in both 2008 and 2009. Still, eight wins is plausible. So what? The 2007 Wolverines won eight games--nine, if you count their bowl victory--and it’s hard to imagine a Lloyd Carr team falling quite as far as Rodriguez’s 2008 version, even with the struggles at QB. A return to eight wins would merely be a return to a status quo that Michigan fans had so recently found unacceptable. And if the 2011 version isn’t on pace to be a legitimate BCS team--if you squint hard enough, you might see a Rose Bowl team somewhere in there two years down the line, though it’s difficult--that all that sturm und drang in 2007 and 2008 went for naught. Unfortunately for Michigan, a failure in 2010 does not mean hitting the reset button and continuing onward. Rodriquez’s recruits are fitted for his system, and any new coach is likely to have difficulty reestablishing the traditional Michigan power attack. Defensive recruiting has been slow over the past two years, and many positions even now are dangerously thin. A failure to make a bowl game this year would mean that many recruits targeted by Michigan will have been in grade school or freshmen in high school the last time Michigan won a bowl game. And as pre-Saban Alabama fans or pre-Pelini Nebraska fans could tell you, it’s a long way back to the top, even for the most storied of programs. The 2009 pattern repeated itself, as a hot team cooled off rapidly. I misidentified the tough games, although Indiana (and to a lesser extent, Purdue) put up a struggle. The Illinois 3OT game mattered tremendously for both teams, but probably more for Michigan; had the Wolverines lost that home game, they may not have retained RR even into the bowl game. There will be plenty of time to talk about the coaching change, but the most damning stat to me? Michigan was 0-8 against the spread in Big Ten play, a sign of significant and persistent disappointment. The horses may not have been there, especially on defense, but there are no excuses for underperforming expectations each and every week. |
Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Pro football is better than college football and the first three rounds of the playoffs blow anything college has to offer out of the water. Last weekend was an absolutely glorious two days of pro football with two games being decided in the last minute and a third being won by a big dog in the final stages of the game. |
Author: | Brick [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
good dolphin wrote: Pro football is better than college football and the first three rounds of the playoffs blow anything college has to offer out of the water. Last weekend was an absolutely glorious two days of pro football. I agree that the pro football playoffs are better than anything else.I still say that college football Saturdays are better than NFL Sundays. Obviously others will disagree. |
Author: | Rod [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Irish Boy wrote: Quote: Ohio State, MSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Purdue, Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota I'm calling this is solid B+. Really? I'd call this a D at best. How much more wrong could you really have gotten it? Three year old kids and dan bernstein knew Ohio State was the best team in the conference. Everything else is pretty much wrong. Maybe Iowa is in the right spot. |
Author: | NSJ [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: I still say that college football Saturdays are better than NFL Sundays. Obviously others will disagree. I agree with you, Rick. |
Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: good dolphin wrote: Pro football is better than college football and the first three rounds of the playoffs blow anything college has to offer out of the water. Last weekend was an absolutely glorious two days of pro football. I agree that the pro football playoffs are better than anything else.I still say that college football Saturdays are better than NFL Sundays. Obviously others will disagree. The first two weekends of the NFL playoffs are surpassing rounds 1-2 of the NCAA tournament for me in terms of athletic interests. I watch intently whether my team is playing or not. |
Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
NSJ wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: I still say that college football Saturdays are better than NFL Sundays. Obviously others will disagree. I agree with you, Rick. +1 |
Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Irish Boy wrote: Quote: Ohio State, MSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Purdue, Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota I'm calling this is solid B+. Really? I'd call this a D at best. How much more wrong could you really have gotten it? Three year old kids and dan bernstein knew Ohio State was the best team in the conference. Everything else is pretty much wrong. Maybe Iowa is in the right spot. I didn't think MSU was going to be that high in the pecking order and realistically were 2 or 3, same for Wisky. Now the bottom gets a bit convulted but Michigan/ILL/NU were all the in the 5-7 Minnesota was bad (don't tell Hawkeye Vince or Irish Boy this) |
Author: | bigfan [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
I am not sure what year '01/'02 Illini get an ass kicking from LSU in the Sugar Bowl. Speed, Speed, Speed. That has been evident in game after game. Bowls Wins Losses Ties Win % SEC 358 196 153 9 .560 Pac-10 200 105 93 2 .530 Big Ten 216 101 114 1 .470 ACC 173 84 87 2 .491 Big 8 127 63 63 1 .500 Southwest 151 63 80 8 .444 Big 12 100 49 51 0 .490 Big East 82 46 36 0 .561 WAC 105 44 60 1 .424 |
Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Quote: Really? I'd call this a D at best. How much more wrong could you really have gotten it? http://preseason.stassen.com/consensus/2010.html#big-ten I was the only person to have MSU as high as I did, and they won a share of the title. Only two out of seventeen of the polls listed had Iowa as low as fourth, which I got right. I correctly predicted the top three in the conference (top four, in fact), which no one on the list did. No one had Penn State lower than fifth. I had them seventh, which was probably an accurate reflection of their strength this season. I was far from perfect, especially towards the bottom. They're predictions, and that's the danger of the trade. But I think I had a better batting record than most, maybe all, of those publications. Next time, I invite you to share your "thoughts" before class, rather than after. |
Author: | Turd Ferguson [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Irish Boy wrote: College football season is over, which means life sucks. I figured I'd look back at my thoughts/opinions from before the season and check where I ended up.
First, my projected rankings: Quote: Ohio State, MSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Purdue, Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota I'm calling this is solid B+. I had Wisconsin a little too low, but I do think OSU was the best team in the Big Ten. I was one of the few people to predict PSU would be very mediocre, so yay me. Iowa 4th, which I think was also against the grain. My biggest mistakes were Purdue, which perhaps was because of injuries, although they weren't exactly rolling before Marve, et al. went out; Indiana, who I thought would be stronger but really regressed; Northwestern, which more on that later; and Illinois, where I wanted to pick them higher but felt I was being too homerish. I think this is solid. I don't know many people who expected MSU to do that well or Iowa to do that poorly. Specific posts on teams to follow. |
Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
This post is a little too self-aggrandizing for my taste. That being said, you do deserve a B+ or even an A-. And I love your insights. I think you are genuinely fair and avoid the homerism that most internet pundits (myself included) inject into their analysis. Only a few comments on your assessment. - You had MSU up high, unlike many. But I think we can all agree that they weren't as good as their record indicated. They were inches away from losing more than a few games this year. If we didn't have a shitty fieldgoal kicker, we would have beaten both MSU and Purdue (I'll file that under "Could Woulda Shoulda'). - Many people (although not necessarily the big names) had Penn State towards the middle of the pack given the QB situation and their tough schedule. |
Author: | Brick [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: If we didn't have a shitty fieldgoal kicker, we would have beaten both MSU and Purdue (I'll file that under "Could Woulda Shoulda'). I have to point out that Purdue won by 3 points, and your kicker only missed one field goal, and had one blocked. The field goal he missed was also 45 yards.
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Author: | Scorehead [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
good dolphin wrote: Pro football is better than college football and the first three rounds of the playoffs blow anything college has to offer out of the water. Last weekend was an absolutely glorious two days of pro football with two games being decided in the last minute and a third being won by a big dog in the final stages of the game. The key word here is playoffs. A college football FBS playoff would be huge...possibly bigger than March Madness. The fact that the top 2 teams wait 37 days to play in the BCS championship game is a joke, & it is the reason both teams looked rusty. Many of the other teams wait weeks to play their bowl games too. This time could be used to run a playoff system. I cant remember a college football season that generated less interest in the bowl games than this season. As for the NFL...while I am a big fan of nearly every level of football below the NFL level, I must say that the parity & uncertainty in the NFL has grown on me. The NFL playoff games last weekend were outstanding. |
Author: | reents [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
I'm with Mud with giving Irish Boy and A- or B+ for his picks, you never know what's going to happen, with injuries or other things. If you think about a 12 or 16 team playoff, the pro players don't even want to play 2 extra games, you think college guys want to play an extra 3-4 games, I will give you 37 days is a little long break, but I like that everybody would be healthy, next year's title game will probably be January 9th. |
Author: | Scorehead [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
reents wrote: I'm with Mud with giving Irish Boy and A- or B+ for his picks, you never know what's going to happen, with injuries or other things. If you think about a 12 or 16 team playoff, the pro players don't even want to play 2 extra games, you think college guys want to play an extra 3-4 games, I will give you 37 days is a little long break, but I like that everybody would be healthy, next year's title game will probably be January 9th. Every level of nearly every college sport has a playoff system...D1 FCS football, D2, D3, football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, LaCrosse, field hockey, & on & on & on...except Division 1 FBS college football. |
Author: | W_Z [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: This post is a little too self-aggrandizing for my taste. you must not read a lot of IB's posts. |
Author: | NSJ [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Scorehead wrote: Ever level of nearly every college sport has a playoff system...D1 FCS football, D2, D3, football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, LaCrosse, field hockey, & on & on & on...except Division 1 FBS college football. Are you sure about this? For years I've been operating under the belief that field hockey had bowl games. |
Author: | Irish Boy [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
How did a discussion about the Big Ten schedule turn into yet another playoff debate? In any event, my point is over the next two weeks or so to go back and look at my old posts and see where I was right and where I was wrong. Sometimes, that will be self-congratulatory. Sometimes, I missed badly. I don't make predictions often, but when I do, I like to see what went right and wrong to learn from it. Also, I like these kinds of exercises because I like to combat the "everyone knew that" type of nonsense of JORR. People lose track of common wisdom very quickly. Certainly my own posts in August reflected some of that now-discredited common wisdom, and I find that interesting. |
Author: | spanky [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Irish Boy wrote: How did a discussion about the Big Ten schedule turn into yet another playoff debate? To be fair, it wasn't a "discussion" until someone else actually posted in this thread. It was more like a self-stroking monologue. |
Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Irish Boy wrote: How did a discussion about the Big Ten schedule turn into yet another playoff debate? In any event, my point is over the next two weeks or so to go back and look at my old posts and see where I was right and where I was wrong. Sometimes, that will be self-congratulatory. Sometimes, I missed badly. I don't make predictions often, but when I do, I like to see what went right and wrong to learn from it. Also, I like these kinds of exercises because I like to combat the "everyone knew that" type of nonsense of JORR. People lose track of common wisdom very quickly. Certainly my own posts in August reflected some of that now-discredited common wisdom, and I find that interesting. You're right. Everyone is a genius before the season even starts. Not many people will take stock of their calls at the end of the season. Or, if they do, they'll layer in the excuses like "ooooh I woulda been so right if Persa didn't snap his Achilles tendon!" |
Author: | reents [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
We can say anything before the season and it maybe right, but then things happen and it turns wrong, like before the season I would have thought Minnesota would do better than Michigan, but didn't happen. Irish Boy, you had Michigan State as number 2, I don't think a lot of people see that happening, I think most would have put Iowa there. On the playoff discussion, I was just throwing another look at it with somebody. |
Author: | good dolphin [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: [You're right. Everyone is a genius before the season even starts. Except for Frank. |
Author: | NSJ [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
reents wrote: Irish Boy, you had Michigan State as number 2, I don't think a lot of people see that happening, I think most would have put Iowa there. Agreed. I didn't think they'd finish better than 5-3 in the conference. |
Author: | BD [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
How do you think this year's TCU team would have performed in the Big 10? |
Author: | Irish Boy [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Reflections on the Big Ten Football Season |
Somewhere in that first grouping. The game against Wisconsin was essentially even, and I don't think Wisconsin was any better than OSU or MSU. They'd probably lose a game on the road somewhere in there, but otherwise they'd be very strong. |
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