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| Ranking the B1G Ten QB's https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=59847 |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
From the Rittenblog 1. Denard Robinson, Michigan, junior: Robinson will have an adjustment period and likely some growing pains along with it. He won't run the ball as much as he did in 2010. But when it comes to pure playmaking skills and pure athleticism, Robinson is unmatched in the league. His record-settling accomplishments in 2010 shouldn't be overlooked and neither should the strides he made as a passer. He must show greater overall consistency and the ability to attack upper-tier defenses, but he'll be working with a good crop of receivers and behind a solid offensive line. 2. Dan Persa, Northwestern, senior: How Persa bounces back from a ruptured Achilles' tendon could determine Northwestern's season, but his progress so far has been encouraging. He has been well ahead of schedule throughout the rehab process. If Persa is indeed 100 percent, Northwestern should have one of the Big Ten's most dangerous offenses. Arguably no Big Ten player meant more to his team than Persa did to Northwestern in 2010. He has a deep and talented receiving corps at his disposal and will operate behind the nation's second-most experienced offensive line. Northwestern must find ways to take some of the running burden off of Persa. 3. Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, senior: Cousins is the most-experienced Big Ten quarterback and, unlike Robinson and Persa, doesn't have major question marks lurking over him. The Spartans' signal-caller had a terrific 2010 campaign, passing for 2,825 yards with 20 touchdowns and 10 interceptions, and ranking 18th nationally in efficiency (150.7 rating). He fought through injuries during the second half of the season to lead Michigan State to a share of the league title. Cousins must eliminate performances like Iowa and Alabama, and he'll be operating behind a new-look offensive line this fall. The senior has a good group of receivers and tight ends, led by B.J. Cunningham and Keshawn Martin. 4. Nathan Scheelhaase, Illinois, sophomore: If you can't tell, I'm pretty excited about Scheelhaase's prospects for 2011. He finished a very solid freshman season by making major strides in bowl practice and showcasing improved passing skills in the Texas Bowl against Baylor. Scheelhaase is a dynamic athlete who rushed for 868 yards and five touchdowns last season and will work behind a solid offensive line in 2011. He must continue to take steps as a passer, especially since Illinois doesn't have much proven depth at receiver other than A.J. Jenkins. Scheelhaase also has displayed good leadership and maturity, two areas where he should continue to thrive. 5. Taylor Martinez, Nebraska, sophomore: Martinez looked like two different players during and up-and-down freshman season. When healthy, he was just as dangerous as Michigan's Robinson with the ball in his hands. Martinez racked up 112 or more rushing yards in five of Nebraska's first seven contests, and had 435 yards of offense in a win against Oklahoma State. But injuries and a loss of confidence derailed the second half of his season. Martinez must show he can stay healthy and, if not, that he can play through pain in a physical conference. His receiving corps should be decent despite few proven players, but Nebraska's offensive line is a question mark. 6. James Vandenberg, Iowa, junior: Vandenberg played sparingly in 2010, but his impressive performance in relief of Ricky Stanzi in 2009 shouldn't be overlooked. He held his own against a talented Ohio State defense at The Shoe in a game that could have sent Iowa to the Rose Bowl. While he hasn't been on the big stage in a while, Vandenberg continues to make strides behind the scenes and emerged this spring as Iowa's clear-cut leader on offense. This ranking is clearly based heavily on how Vandenberg projects for 2011, but he has the tools and the makeup to be a good one for the Hawkeyes. He'll benefit from a strong No. 1 receiver in Marvin McNutt and a talented offensive line. 7. Rob Bolden, Penn State, sophomore: The big unknown is whether Bolden stays with Penn State for the season after keeping the door open for a possible departure even after spring practice. If he does, he has a chance to take a big step forward in his development. His experience in 2010 as a true freshman should pay off, and he drew good reviews from both his coaches and his teammates this spring, not only from a technical standpoint but perhaps more importantly as a leader. The talent is there, and Bolden will be surrounded by some good receivers and running backs. 8. Rob Henry, Purdue, sophomore: This is another projection pick, but Henry has taken the steps to be a more complete and consistent quarterback in 2011. He battled a nasty hand injury for much of the Big Ten season last fall and became one-dimensional, but he looked better throwing the ball this spring. Coach Danny Hope called Henry the team's most-improved player during the offseason, and Henry clearly has his teammates' support. The big question is if and when he'll be named Purdue's starter as Robert Marve returns from a knee injury. 9. MarQueis Gray, Minnesota, junior: The most encouraging part of Minnesota's spring session was Gray's ability to grasp the new offense. It's a system where dual-threat quarterbacks can thrive, and Gray fits the description after transitioning back from wide receiver. Some growing pains should be expected, but Gray can make things happen with his size and athleticism. He also has an excellent No. 1 target in Da'Jon McKnight. Gray must continue to lead the way and help his teammates get up to speed, but he has been taking the right steps so far. 10. Matt McGloin, Penn State, junior: It was a tough call between McGloin and Purdue's Marve for the final spot, but there are too many questions about Marve following two ACL tears. McGloin had a miserable end to the 2010 season, but he did some good things along the way and instilled some fire in a seemingly lifeless Penn State offense. He turned in impressive performances against both Michigan and Northwestern, rallying Penn State past the Wildcats to give coach Joe Paterno his 400th career victory. McGloin must increase his completion percentage and trim his interceptions total, but like Bolden, he can build off of the 2010 season. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
I hate the new two-blogger system they have over there. I like Rittenberg and thought he was doing fine on his own. But if they are going to use two writers, they should have them write different things. The other blogger wrote an almost identical list earlier today. I like Grey going forward. Bolden is too high at 7. Scheelhaase seems too high, but man is the position down in the conference (and across the country) next year. |
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| Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
I guess UW, OSU, and IU will go without QBs this year. I would flip Nathan and Martinez. Scheelhaase is something special once he becomes a more consistent passer. I would also flip Cousins and Persa for now given the unknown of Persa's rehab. Vandenberg is about right. Bolden is high at 7 but not sure marquis should be above him. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Still hearing Russell Wilson is considering Wisconsin |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Irish Boy wrote: I hate the new two-blogger system they have over there. I like Rittenberg and thought he was doing fine on his own. But if they are going to use two writers, they should have them write different things. The other blogger wrote an almost identical list earlier today. I like Grey going forward. Bolden is too high at 7. Scheelhaase seems too high, but man is the position down in the conference (and across the country) next year. No, IB. The first one was ranking the QB position, which considers the backups. This list just takes the QB individually. |
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| Author: | reents [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Shouldn't COusins be first, Persa coming off an injury that can happen anytime again. Won't Hoke have to teach Robinson how to make throws from the pocket, he can do it on the run, but also had some injuries last year. If Wilson does go to Wisco, he would be my number 1. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Yeah,Yeah...NU has a great offense. Same shit every season. What the Illini did to them at Wrigley made me wonder if NU's Head Coach really knows anything about defense. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
What a horrible crop of quarterbacks. What is this? The Big Sky Conference? |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
It looks like Purdue is going to be giving multiple QB's some time. Keep in mind, this isn't because they don't have a solid option. It's because they have TOO MANY good options.  In general, if you are playing two QB's it means that you aren't confident in any of your QBs. This will sort itself out after one of them has a season ending knee injury though.One month and three weeks away from the season. It's been missed. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: I agree with your optimism. At his best, I think Persa is a much better QB than Robinson and certainly a better prospect at the position. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Dan Persa had a worse QB rating and fewer yards rushing per attempt in Big Ten play than Nathan Scheelhaase. He also didn't face three of the five top Big Ten teams. He's a shitty schedule mirage. Decent player, yes. Heisman contender or best QB in the Big Ten, absolutely not. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Who is a better QB than Persa? Cousins? No way. Watch a few games and then tell me who the better QB is. Let's also keep in mind he was one of the most efficient QBs in the nation. His overall numbers are great and that is without the last two games of the year. Regardless of stats, I just ask that you watch his film... his command of the game goes much farther than the stats suggest. There is a reason he was voted First-team All-Big Ten quarterback as named by coaches. I'll grant you that last year was an easy schedule. But look at this Io_a game and tell me how you think he did against one of the premier defenses of the Big Ten. That is an amazing QB and clearly the best in the Big 10. The fact that he was able to post these amazing numbers without a real running game to speak of supports my argument even further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38WPQKftk4U Stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want stats. He led FBS with 73.5 % completion percentage, which broke the Big Ten and NU single-season records. Finished ninth nationally in passing efficiency (159.04). Ranked first nationally on the year for the fewest interceptions thrown (4 in 302 attempts, 1.32%) among FBS players. Also at the time of his injury: ranked second in conference and ninth nationally in total offense (310.0 ypg), second in Big Ten in passing yards per game (258.1), tied for third in conference in points responsible for (14.4) and tied for third nationally in fewest interceptions thrown (4). Finished his season completing 222-of-302 passes with 15 passing touchdowns, nine rushing scores and four interceptions. Threw for 200 or more yards in nine of 10 games and topped 300 yards of total offense seven times. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: Who is a better QB than Persa? Cousins? No way. Watch a few games and then tell me who the better QB is. Let's also keep in mind he was one of the most efficient QBs in the nation. His overall numbers are great and that is without the last two games of the year. Regardless of stats, I just ask that you watch his film... his command of the game goes much farther than the stats suggest. There is a reason he was voted First-team All-Big Ten quarterback as named by coaches. I'll grant you that last year was an easy schedule. But look at this Io_a game and tell me how you think he did against one of the premier defenses of the Big Ten. That is an amazing QB and clearly the best in the Big 10. The fact that he was able to post these amazing numbers without a real running game to speak of supports my argument even further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38WPQKftk4U Stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want stats. He led FBS with 73.5 % completion percentage, which broke the Big Ten and NU single-season records. Finished ninth nationally in passing efficiency (159.04). Ranked first nationally on the year for the fewest interceptions thrown (4 in 302 attempts, 1.32%) among FBS players. Also at the time of his injury: ranked second in conference and ninth nationally in total offense (310.0 ypg), second in Big Ten in passing yards per game (258.1), tied for third in conference in points responsible for (14.4) and tied for third nationally in fewest interceptions thrown (4). Finished his season completing 222-of-302 passes with 15 passing touchdowns, nine rushing scores and four interceptions. Threw for 200 or more yards in nine of 10 games and topped 300 yards of total offense seven times. Cousins is better. Robinson is also better. Quote: He led FBS with 73.5 % completion percentage, which broke the Big Ten and NU single-season records. They have a system designed around short, high percentage passes. Not a single NU pass went over 50 yards last year, and the one that went 50 was against Illinois State. Quote: Finished ninth nationally in passing efficiency (159.04) Sucky schedule. His conference rating was in the 130s, which puts him beneath quite a few Big Ten quarterbacks. And he didn't face Ohio State, Wisconsin, or Illinois. He was very good against Rice and Central Michigan. I am unimpressed. Quote: Ranked first nationally on the year for the fewest interceptions thrown (4 in 302 attempts, 1.32%) among FBS players. The offense trades explosiveness for high-percentage passing. This is evidenced by the lack of long plays, described above, and also by the consistently average point totals the offense put up. Once again, when you play shitty OOC schedules, everything looks very good. Tis the Northwestern way. Rice was horrible. Central Michigan was horrible. Vanderbilt was horrible and Northwestern very nearly lost anyway. In six conference games, Persa had a passer rating of 132.5. Half of those conference games were the three teams that didn't make bowl games. And he averaged three yards a carry in Big Ten play (though some of that is from sacks). If he's that good, then he'll do it against real teams this season. Army alone is better than seven of the ten teams Northwestern faced last year. And I'm sure he'll complete a lot of passes this year. But I wouldn't hold my breath on an all-Big Ten performance. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Amongst starters in Big Ten play, Persa was eighth in QB rating behind Stanzi, Tolzein, Cousins, McGloin, Robinson, Pryor, and Scheelhaase. Persa provides more on the ground than the first three, but the first three were also far and away better passers. The later three had better rushing stats as well, Robinson and Pryor by far and Scheelhaase by a reasonable amount. And that's without Persa playing Ohio State or Wisconsin. The only one of those QBs I think Persa was better than, all things considered despite the QB rating, was McGloin. |
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| Author: | reents [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
To me, the problem with Persa is that he's coming of an ACL injury and those can happen anytime, even if he makes it through it, would look off most of the year. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
For every stat you give, I can give another that supports my claim. We can play this game all day long. But look at the actual games... Watch every Michigan State game and every Northwestern game and tell me who the better QB is. Stats lie... We all know that. Just watch the games. He was an absolutely amazing QB despite no name skill positions all around him. Any other Big 10 program would love to have him. At least that's what the Big Ten coaches thought when they voted him the best. And I would argue they have a bit more experience judging talent than you or I. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
reents wrote: To me, the problem with Persa is that he's coming of an ACL injury and those can happen anytime, even if he makes it through it, would look off most of the year. You might be right. It might be hard to repeat what he did last year... the way that guy goes full tilt every play, I wonder if he doesn't snap the other one... I'm told that is pretty common. I work with a guy who snapped one and then snapped the other exactly a year later. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: For every stat you give, I can give another that supports my claim. We can play this game all day long. But look at the actual games... Watch every Michigan State game and every Northwestern game and tell me who the better QB is. Stats lie... We all know that. Just watch the games. He was an absolutely amazing QB despite no name skill positions all around him. Any other Big 10 program would love to have him. At least that's what the Big Ten coaches thought when they voted him the best. And I would argue they have a bit more experience judging talent than you or I. Why would you assume I haven't watched all the games? The only game of those two teams I can't remember watching was Northwestern at Indiana. As for the coaching selections, I'm not particularly interested in what eleven interns or graduate assistants thought about the prior season. You, and other Northwestern fans, keep assuming that Rice = Wisconsin, and because Persa was really good against one he would have been really good against the other. This is unwarranted. That's why it makes sense to look only at conference numbers, because those things tend to even out. When you do that, both Persa's and Northwestern's offensive numbers as a whole look pretty mediocre, and that's without facing the two best defenses. I watch enough Big Ten football to make up my own mind about things. He's a decent player. He's the fourth best QB in the conference right now, behind Cousins, Robinson, and now Wilson. That is not bad. It is also not the stuff that Heisman candidacies are made of. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Irish Boy wrote: I watch enough Big Ten football to make up my own mind about things. He's a decent player. He's the fourth best QB in the conference right now, behind Cousins, Robinson, and now Wilson. That is not bad. It is also not the stuff that Heisman candidacies are made of. I was kidding about the Heisman stuff, but he is still the best QB in the Big 10. I watch a ton of Big Ten games. And I admit Robinson is a freak athlete... but I wouldn't call him the best signal caller. Cousins is very capable, but hard to suggest he is that amazing when your first thought is to keep running the ball. That opened up alot of opportunities for MSU and then never really asked him to do that much. Wilson will be interesting, but plugging that guy into a new scheme won't be as easy as you may think. I actually think Scheelhaase has more upside than all three of the guys you mentioned. Regardless, like you suggested previously, we'll see if I'm right or wrong because this year's schedule is much more difficult than last year... and our defense might be even worse than last year. |
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| Author: | NSJ [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Irish Boy wrote: You, and other Northwestern fans, keep assuming that Rice = Wisconsin That's an unverifiable, blanket statement used to bolster your argument. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
NSJ wrote: Irish Boy wrote: You, and other Northwestern fans, keep assuming that Rice = Wisconsin That's an unverifiable, blanket statement used to bolster your argument. True dat... do you know many folks that are actually NU fans that watch the games? Because if you do, give them my number... it's really lonely here in the West Lot. |
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| Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
reents wrote: To me, the problem with Persa is that he's coming of an ACL injury and those can happen anytime, even if he makes it through it, would look off most of the year. Achilles, but yes - be interesting to see how he bounces back |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Irish, can you name a QB with a more woeful supporting group than Persa. He was everything to their offense as evidenced by the steep decline when he left. You could even make a case that he was everything to their defense. Now you can reply that everything Michigan does goes through Robinson, but the surrounding talent is not even close to comparable. It's a testament to Persa that he was able to produce given the focus opposing teams could place on him. I know it's unrelated but I'll bet you a lunch he is drafted higher than anyone to play QB than anyone else on that list. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
good dolphin wrote: Irish, can you name a QB with a more woeful supporting group than Persa. I can. 
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
good dolphin wrote: Irish, can you name a QB with a more woeful supporting group than Persa. He was everything to their offense as evidenced by the steep decline when he left. You could even make a case that he was everything to their defense. Now you can reply that everything Michigan does goes through Robinson, but the surrounding talent is not even close to comparable. It's a testament to Persa that he was able to produce given the focus opposing teams could place on him. I know it's unrelated but I'll bet you a lunch he is drafted higher than anyone to play QB than anyone else on that list. I'll take that bet. Cousins will get a decent-ish draft pick. I like Northwestern's wide receivers a fair bit, especially Ebert. The running game was pretty awful last year, although interestingly it improved after Persa was injured. |
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| Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Irish Boy wrote: I know it's unrelated but I'll bet you a lunch he is drafted higher than anyone to play QB than anyone else on that list. I'll take that bet. Cousins will get a decent-ish draft pick. [/quote] Cousins strikes me like Stanzi - he'll be a 3/4/5 pick. Persa might get a sniff in a camp but he's too small to play QB at the Pro Level. 5'11" won't cut it. Hi Drew Tate! |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
I know agreeing with you on Ebert will dilute my argument about Persa... but hey, I'll say it anyway. Ebert has bulked up without sacrificing much of his speed. I could see him as an Eric Decker type receiver this year. Demetrius Fields and Charles Brown are great possession receivers. And watch out for Rashad Lawrence. Persa has some guys to work with this year. And I encourage you to watch that youtube clip of the Io_a game again. Watch how quickly Persa makes his reads. He's amazing to watch. But alas, we just have not much of a running game. Trumpy did some good stuff, but against really sub-par defenses. He couldn't do much against the big ones. Key to Persa's upside is whether we can establish a run game. IB was quoting rushes per attempt, which highlights a weakness for Persa. He was (I believe) one of the most sacked QBs because sometimes he would just hold on to the ball for too long. He'd take the sack instead of throwing it away, thinking he could get one more second to make it to his 5th read. But I think anyone who watched him when he decided to scramble would realize that Persa belongs with Denard, Scheelaase, Henry and Wilson as elite Big 10 scramblers. He's got a helluva first step, much to the lament of his poor Achilles. |
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| Author: | My_name_1s_MUD [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
Hawkeye Vince wrote: Persa might get a sniff in a camp but he's too small to play QB at the Pro Level. 5'11" won't cut it. Hi Drew Tate! I thought Drew Brees kinda debunked that theory. But truth be told, I fear you might be right. While he has much more arm strength than anyone gives him credit for, I suspect the pros will want more. He is a better QB than Kafka... and Kafka was arguably the best QB in the Big 10 his senior year (at least in the coversation with Clark, Pryor, Stanzi and Chappell). |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ranking the B1G Ten QB's |
I have to say, regardless of what you think about the quality of the QBs, I can't remember a more likable group of athletes, especially now that Pryor has departed the scene. Cousins, Robinson, Persa, Scheelhaase, and Gray at Minnesota are very, very easy to cheer for. The only QBs I can think about as dislikable are Marve and maybe Bolden, depending upon how much of a diva you think he is in the wake of last year. |
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