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I really couldn't disagree anymore Ugie. Context is a bitch. Finding out truths about an experience that you used to hold dear can make you realize that the experience wasn't what you thought it was. It doesn't make you a bad guy or naive at the time for not knowing what was going on, but it should and absolutely does change your perspective after the fact.

If you are disappointed by inappropriate relationships being covered over by administration, the world of academia was not a good career choice. This was about as bad as it gets, but every university has its scandals.

Northside_Dan wrote:

Possibly. I mean, I see your points, but at one time in Psycory's life the idea of being affiliated with Penn State was a pleasant thought. That thought was probably based on how he viewed the university at that time.

I'm just suggesting that your fondness of a particular memory doesn't have to change. But, then again, I am aware the world isn't that black and white.

What else would you need to hear MUD?

Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:

Northside_Dan wrote:

Until they take some serious action, everyone affiliated at the school is scum of the fucking earth. The higher up they go, the worse they are in this situation.

Anyone that wants to try and tell me this is just one ex employee is a fucking moron! Lavarr Arrington= Fucking Moron.

McCreery, His Dad, Joe Pa, Almost everyone associated with the 2nd mile Charity the allowed Sundusky to have any affiliation. Anyone that got a plane ticket for a 10 year old boy to fly and room with Sundusky to a bowl game, any janitor that walked by a shower as a 60 year old man is showering with a 10 year old boy, anyone that even heard the rumor of this situation years ago as a reason why the D Coordinator is not formally part of the team, but is still allowed to be part of the team and do whatever he wants.

Terry's Peeps wrote:

What else would you need to hear MUD?

I think there are all kinds of questions surrounding this. Regardless, everyone associated with that football program has to go immediately. The president of the university has to go too.

My biggest question is how did this going on for so long with so many people knowing about it? I read an article like the one by Andy Staples and I read people here saying any parent who had a kid molested would be homicidal. But the fact is, none of these parents were. How could it be that not one parent of a kid Sandusky molested kept screaming until something was done?

My Mom is 80 yeas old. Younger than JoePa. She can barely remember what she had for breakfast. I'm not sure I would tarnish the rest of her career based on what she did in her 70's and 80's. I'm not saying what JoePa did was right, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear he was legitimately oblivious or heavily influenced by the administration to let them handle it. I guess I'm just willing to wait to hear all the facts rather than all the allegations.

Admittedly I'm disgusted and haven't read all the articles. Its pretty much well documented the bastard did all the stuff they say?

We dont know if or when the parents knew though.

Author:	Psycory [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	My thoughts
I had a long diatribe typed up, but thought better of posting it. So here are my current disjointed thoughts that I probably stole somewhere. Back in Spring of 2007, I had a choice to make, a job at a regional campus of Ohio State and one at a regional campus of Penn State. The Ohio job had one huge advantage: it was significantly closer to home. However, everyone I talked to that had some experience with Penn State had nothing but positive things to say; they loved the university and had a real sense of pride. I contrast that with the fact that I had a few people who explicitly told me to not take the job at Ohio State. When I got here, I saw what the people were saying, to say that everyone was drinking the Penn State koolaid would be an understatement. I was happy and proud of the fact that I was associated with the university. Hell, I felt more pride in Penn State than I did my own alma mater (to be fair I have been here for almost five years now, and I was only there for four). I am angry for the victims. I'm angry at the administration. I am mostly a cynical person, it comes with the territory of being a social psychologist. One of the things that I was blissfully naive about was the school that I work at. I feel betrayed which annoys me on a couple of levels. Number one, I should know better that nothing is as perfect as it seems and number two, my feelings shouldn't matter that much...I should be more upset for the victims.While this naivete is nice, everyone has to grow up - even Penn State. However, much like childhood, there are times I wish it could go back to the way it was but know it never will.

Author:	Ugueth Will Shiv You [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
This is why these types of stories irk me. First, you are entirely entitled to your own feelings on this subject. You could have obviously been a lot closer to this whole situation than many of us on the board. I am also not about to tell someone how they should or should not feel. But, there really isn't anything stopping you or anyone else from keeping your own special memories about Penn State from your childhood. Those memories haven't changed. A writer on Grantland.com also wrote out this whole article about how his childhood memories growing up around the university are now "forever tarnished" because of this scandal. I just dont understand how that's possible. I think my point is this: don't let the actions of a single person ruin something that brought you joy and pleasant memories while you were growing up. What has happened is certainly a huge blemish on how you (and everyone) now views the school, but you at least have the recollection of "the good old days". I don't think that makes you naive at all.

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
I really couldn't disagree anymore Ugie. Context is a bitch. Finding out truths about an experience that you used to hold dear can make you realize that the experience wasn't what you thought it was. It doesn't make you a bad guy or naive at the time for not knowing what was going on, but it should and absolutely does change your perspective after the fact.

Author:	good dolphin [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
If you are disappointed by inappropriate relationships being covered over by administration, the world of academia was not a good career choice. This was about as bad as it gets, but every university has its scandals.

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Northside_Dan wrote: I really couldn't disagree anymore Ugie. Context is a bitch. Finding out truths about an experience that you used to hold dear can make you realize that the experience wasn't what you thought it was. It doesn't make you a bad guy or naive at the time for not knowing what was going on, but it should and absolutely does change your perspective after the fact. Well said. See 98 homerun chase for example.

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Author:	Psycory [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
good dolphin wrote: If you are disappointed by inappropriate relationships being covered over by administration, the world of academia was not a good career choice. This was about as bad as it gets, but every university has its scandals. yeah, but I can handle other scandals that would fit within the realm of academia...this is somewhat different. Also, context is important and feelings change over time naturally...I'm sure the sense of embarassment and lack of good feelings I feel toward PSU will change for the better over time but right now it's still a bit raw.

Author:	Houston Homer [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insight about the situation. I appreciate it.

Author:	W_Z [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
well, it isn't your fault, psy. your experiences are still positive ones. you didn't know this was going on. like GD said, this goes on an awful lot more than it's reported. take what you've learned personally and professionally and don't worry about the things you don't have any control over.

Author:	Spaulding [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
You have every right to feel betrayed and lied to (and by the most "powerful people" there.) My guess is it's not everyone though. I'm sorry and sad for you.

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: Northside_Dan wrote: I really couldn't disagree anymore Ugie. Context is a bitch. Finding out truths about an experience that you used to hold dear can make you realize that the experience wasn't what you thought it was. It doesn't make you a bad guy or naive at the time for not knowing what was going on, but it should and absolutely does change your perspective after the fact. Possibly. I mean, I see your points, but at one time in Psycory's life the idea of being affiliated with Penn State was a pleasant thought. That thought was probably based on how he viewed the university at that time. I'm just suggesting that your fondness of a particular memory doesn't have to change. But, then again, I am aware the world isn't that black and white. Until they take some serious action, everyone affiliated at the school is scum of the fucking earth. The higher up they go, the worse they are in this situation. Anyone that wants to try and tell me this is just one ex employee is a fucking moron! Lavarr Arrington= Fucking Moron. McCreery, His Dad, Joe Pa, Almost everyone associated with the 2nd mile Charity the allowed Sundusky to have any affiliation. Anyone that got a plane ticket for a 10 year old boy to fly and room with Sundusky to a bowl game, any janitor that walked by a shower as a 60 year old man is showering with a 10 year old boy, anyone that even heard the rumor of this situation years ago as a reason why the D Coordinator is not formally part of the team, but is still allowed to be part of the team and do whatever he wants.

Author:	Spaulding [ Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
I'm with you.

Author:	My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Am I the only one willing to wait to hear what a court says before you crucify a man who has simply meant everything to an Institution? Perhaps I'm being too forgiving, but Im willing to give a man who has done so much good (Joe Pa) a little extra time to hear the entire story.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
What else would you need to hear MUD?

Author:	JORR [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Terry's Peeps wrote: What else would you need to hear MUD? I think there are all kinds of questions surrounding this. Regardless, everyone associated with that football program has to go immediately. The president of the university has to go too. My biggest question is how did this going on for so long with so many people knowing about it? I read an article like the one by Andy Staples and I read people here saying any parent who had a kid molested would be homicidal. But the fact is, none of these parents were. How could it be that not one parent of a kid Sandusky molested kept screaming until something was done?

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Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
I meant in terms of what could Paterno say that would excuse his not going to the police.

Author:	My_name_1s_MUD [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
My Mom is 80 yeas old. Younger than JoePa. She can barely remember what she had for breakfast. I'm not sure I would tarnish the rest of her career based on what she did in her 70's and 80's. I'm not saying what JoePa did was right, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear he was legitimately oblivious or heavily influenced by the administration to let them handle it. I guess I'm just willing to wait to hear all the facts rather than all the allegations. Admittedly I'm disgusted and haven't read all the articles. Its pretty much well documented the bastard did all the stuff they say?

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
bigfan wrote: Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: Northside_Dan wrote: I really couldn't disagree anymore Ugie. Context is a bitch. Finding out truths about an experience that you used to hold dear can make you realize that the experience wasn't what you thought it was. It doesn't make you a bad guy or naive at the time for not knowing what was going on, but it should and absolutely does change your perspective after the fact. Possibly. I mean, I see your points, but at one time in Psycory's life the idea of being affiliated with Penn State was a pleasant thought. That thought was probably based on how he viewed the university at that time. I'm just suggesting that your fondness of a particular memory doesn't have to change. But, then again, I am aware the world isn't that black and white. Until they take some serious action, everyone affiliated at the school is scum of the fucking earth. The higher up they go, the worse they are in this situation. Anyone that wants to try and tell me this is just one ex employee is a fucking moron! Lavarr Arrington= Fucking Moron. McCreery, His Dad, Joe Pa, Almost everyone associated with the 2nd mile Charity the allowed Sundusky to have any affiliation. Anyone that got a plane ticket for a 10 year old boy to fly and room with Sundusky to a bowl game, any janitor that walked by a shower as a 60 year old man is showering with a 10 year old boy, anyone that even heard the rumor of this situation years ago as a reason why the D Coordinator is not formally part of the team, but is still allowed to be part of the team and do whatever he wants. I'm willing to give the janitor a little bit of a pass. It sounds like the guy was an old, odd job type laborer with some post traumatic stress disorder and the beginnings of dementia.

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: What else would you need to hear MUD? I think there are all kinds of questions surrounding this. Regardless, everyone associated with that football program has to go immediately. The president of the university has to go too. My biggest question is how did this going on for so long with so many people knowing about it? I read an article like the one by Andy Staples and I read people here saying any parent who had a kid molested would be homicidal. But the fact is, none of these parents were. How could it be that not one parent of a kid Sandusky molested kept screaming until something was done? We dont know if or when the parents knew though.

Author:	JORR [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
My_name_1s_MUD wrote: My Mom is 80 yeas old. Younger than JoePa. She can barely remember what she had for breakfast. I'm not sure I would tarnish the rest of her career based on what she did in her 70's and 80's. I'm not saying what JoePa did was right, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear he was legitimately oblivious or heavily influenced by the administration to let them handle it. I guess I'm just willing to wait to hear all the facts rather than all the allegations. Admittedly I'm disgusted and haven't read all the articles. Its pretty much well documented the bastard did all the stuff they say? That's pretty much what I think about it. I don't know where Paterno's head was in 2002, but he's clearly not all there right now. Did you hear him responding to his "supporters"? (What a bunch of morons these people are.) Beat Nebraska? Is he insane? Who cares about that football game? His statements aren't carefully crafted by some university lawyer. He saying what he thinks and it's obvious he is somewhat disconnected from reality and doesn't fully grasp the gravity of the situation. Beat Nebraska? They can't let him retire on his own terms. He lost that right when he failed to protect those kids.

Author:	sjboyd0137 [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My thoughts
rogers park bryan wrote: We dont know if or when the parents knew though. This is the thing I was thinking about after I read the column on Grantland on Monday. The writer grew up in State College. Played baseball with Paterno's kid, with Sandusky's kid, with McQueery. The tone was that there was a bit of hero worship going on with the guys involved in the football program because of the fact that the town is basically on it's own in the middle of nowhere. I wonder if any of the parents knew, but didn't believe the kids because of that. This feels like what was going on when stories about priests abusing kids first started coming out. If you read about the victims in those cases, they often say that they told their parents, but the parents were convinced that noone in that position of power would actually hurt a kid.