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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:28 am 
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So it's all but official now that the Big East is not a quality conference and never will be. The bowls are jumping all over themselves to sign long term deals with the other major conferences and now the Big East is forced to fight out for the one remaining spot that goes to the highest rated team from the other conferences.

It's actually pretty sad, but also somewhat deserved for poor decisions made by the Big East for years. You'd think a conference in the most densely populated area in the country could have survived.

In my opinion, these were the two colossal mistakes.
1) Having non-football members. There was very little value generated by the non-football schools. The ones who did matter would have joined up with football like UCONN did anyways. The whole brand was diluted and to make the numbers work they had to invite illogical geographic members like Depaul and Marquette.
2) Giving Notre Dame anything they wanted. Notre Dame as a full conference member may have saved the league. Letting them get all the benefits with none of the downside was a terrible decision. The ACC kind of knows this, and at least made Notre Dame play more ACC games than they were before.

Also, I have to give the Big 12 credit. They seemed to have saved themselves and stayed viable. It's still the Big Texas conference, but it should make everyone money.

Feel sorry for Rutgers though. They probably got the worst of the whole conference realignment. They were in line to get into the Big Ten if another school was needed, but now they are stuck with the Big East.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:33 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So it's all but official now that the Big East is not a quality conference and never will be. The bowls are jumping all over themselves to sign long term deals with the other major conferences and now the Big East is forced to fight out for the one remaining spot that goes to the highest rated team from the other conferences.

It's actually pretty sad, but also somewhat deserved for poor decisions made by the Big East for years. You'd think a conference in the most densely populated area in the country could have survived.

In my opinion, these were the two colossal mistakes.
1) Having non-football members. There was very little value generated by the non-football schools. The ones who did matter would have joined up with football like UCONN did anyways. The whole brand was diluted and to make the numbers work they had to invite illogical geographic members like Depaul and Marquette.

There's a lot baked in here. First, population only really matters if people are watching your games. College football might literally be the eight or ninth most popular sporting from New York City up through New England. The Big East never really changed the peripherals.

Second, the founding membership of the Big East set this in motion. Don't blame Marquette and DePaul; blame Seton Hall and Providence. Only don't really blame them, either. The needs of the football and basketball schools haven't been aligned since 1990. It's no one's fault, but here we are.

2) Giving Notre Dame anything they wanted. Notre Dame as a full conference member may have saved the league. Letting them get all the benefits with none of the downside was a terrible decision. The ACC kind of knows this, and at least made Notre Dame play more ACC games than they were before.[/quote]
Purdue bias is speaking there. The Big East was in absolutely no position to dictate terms. When a two dates and eight, the two doesn't get to demand that the eight put out on the first date.

If you're looking for villains, start with Richard Blumenthal.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
There's a lot baked in here. First, population only really matters if people are watching your games. College football might literally be the eight or ninth most popular sporting from New York City up through New England. The Big East never really changed the peripherals.
The counterargument to that is that there isn't a whole lot of difference between NYC and Chicago in this regard. Chicago is not a college town either. It's a town filled with people who root for colleges based on family or personal attendance at the university. The Big East just has a bad product and has for years.
Irish Boy wrote:
Second, the founding membership of the Big East set this in motion. Don't blame Marquette and DePaul; blame Seton Hall and Providence. Only don't really blame them, either. The needs of the football and basketball schools haven't been aligned since 1990. It's no one's fault, but here we are.
I'm sure that is true. I don't know enough about the founding of the Big East. My whole experience is based on observations from 2000 and on.
Irish Boy wrote:
Purdue bias is speaking there. The Big East was in absolutely no position to dictate terms. When a two dates and eight, the two doesn't get to demand that the eight put out on the first date.
What was Notre Dame going to do? Quit and kill the conference? That already happened. So what if they lose the men's basketball team. They aren't that important, especially in a league that is filled with national programs. I just don't see what value Notre Dame ever provided them. All it did was take value away besides the Brey years where they have been competitive.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Quote:
The counterargument to that is that there isn't a whole lot of difference between NYC and Chicago in this regard. Chicago is not a college town either.

That might be true of NYC, but it's not true of the rest of New England. No one anywhere cares. I mean:
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It's just a tough area to set up in. Your thought isn't crazy; a lot of people thought the Big East would absolutely take off in the 90s. But they just couldn't capitalize on the population base. There's a book about this or something.
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What was Notre Dame going to do? Quit and kill the conference? That already happened. So what if they lose the men's basketball team. They aren't that important, especially in a league that is filled with national programs. I just don't see what value Notre Dame ever provided them. All it did was take value away besides the Brey years where they have been competitive.

There's not really such a thing as a national program in college basketball. The sport isn't popular enough. No one team is valuable enough to command enough attention that it will turn heads in cable television rooms. Duke and North Carolina are as close as it gets.

That being said, Notre Dame was the conference's strongest toehold into the Midwest, even post 2000s expansion. Notre Dame got easier scheduling in non-revenue sports. The Big East got to put "Chicago" on a bullet point in sales pitches to ESPN. The relationship benefited both sides.

I don't think there are very many villains here. The Big East was doomed from the beginning, but there were plenty of other conferences along the same model, and the economics of college sports completely overturned after 1984. Mike Tranghese made a lot of false steps, but then again, the Big East staggered along for a lot longer than the Metro Conference. The basketball schools are going to fade into irrelevance (except Georgetown probably) but that would have happened anyway; they just don't have the position of economic power.

Like I said before, there's really only one villain in my opinion. Richard Blumenthal decided he was going to pander to Connecticut voters, and in so doing pushed Miami and Boston College into the arms of the ACC (and precipitated Virginia Tech's exit, though indirectly). He wasted millions of taxpayer dollars pursuing utterly frivolous lawsuits. And the best part is that less than a decade later, when Connecticut tried to beg their way into the ACC, John Swofford was still around to say no f'ing way.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Interesting. I'm on about page 13 of a book on college football conference realignment. Maybe I'll have more to share later.

New England is a strange place. Besides Connecticut, it's basically Boston and nothing else. The further you get away from NYC, the quicker it starts to feel like you are in Canada.

If hypothetically, they had kicked out all non-football schools in 2005, you think they are still relevant?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Interesting. I'm on about page 13 of a book on college football conference realignment. Maybe I'll have more to share later.

New England is a strange place. Besides Connecticut, it's basically Boston and nothing else. The further you get away from NYC, the quicker it starts to feel like you are in Canada.

If hypothetically, they had kicked out all non-football schools in 2005, you think they are still relevant?

I think their last chance was convincing Miami to stick around and expanding to twelve in football. Once they pissed Miami off too many dominos fell.

Then again, the basketball schools would have fought that. It's a little bit chicken-and-egg. The mixed structure doomed them, but to be fear to the original basketball-only schools, it was arguably more their school than the football schools.

The expansion to (especially) DePaul and Marquette was an absolute unmitigated mistake. They brought nothing, and their presence filled up slots to real programs. DePaul to the Big East might be the biggest mistake in conference expansion history. But I'm not sure it was the difference between life and death for the Big East.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:04 am 
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It seems to me that the conference has always been a disaster as a collection of football teams. Bad teams with unmotivated fan bases trying to play big time football when they much more closely resembled the MAC than even lowly football conferences like the ACC.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:07 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
It seems to me that the conference has always been a disaster as a collection of football teams. Bad teams with unmotivated fan bases trying to play big time football when they much more closely resembled the MAC than even lowly football conferences like the ACC.

Agree. I don't think having "non-football members" mattered at all on the football side of things.
The SEC could add Depaul and Marquettte as non-football members and still be a bad ass football conference that wouldn't (essentially) dissolve as a result.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:35 am 
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spanky wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It seems to me that the conference has always been a disaster as a collection of football teams. Bad teams with unmotivated fan bases trying to play big time football when they much more closely resembled the MAC than even lowly football conferences like the ACC.

Agree. I don't think having "non-football members" mattered at all on the football side of things.
The SEC could add Depaul and Marquettte as non-football members and still be a bad ass football conference that wouldn't (essentially) dissolve as a result.

It would if the non-football members had a say on what happened on the football side of things. The SEC would still be in an advantageous position compared to most conferences, but the Big East basketball schools tried (repeatedly) to kill the football conference. They rejected Penn State. They tried to "merge" football with the ACC twice. They resisted expansion in football for fear of what would happen to the basketball program. And the revenue split became an endless pain in the ass, which drove teams away.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:29 am 
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How could these high paid administrators not be able to see what everyone else could? That the Big East was going to collapse?

Source: Boise in talks to stay in MWC
By Andy Katz | ESPN.com

The Mountain West and Boise State are having ongoing dialogue about the Broncos staying in the conference instead of leaving for the Big East in fall 2013, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com on Friday night.

The source said the focus of the Mountain West is to lure the Broncos back in light of the Big East shakeup that has seen Louisville and Rutgers commit to leave the league for the ACC and the Big Ten, respectively, in 2014, and then the potential devaluing of the television deal with seven Catholic-based non-FBS schools announcing a split as late as June 30, 2015.

Boise State could be forced to make a quick choice between the two conferences because the Mountain West and CBS have agreed to restructure their television deal, CBSSports.com reported Friday, citing anonymous sources.

A new deal could mean millions more for Mountain West schools through the 2015-2016 school year and make the Mountain West the dominant non-BCS conference in the country.

In contrast, multiple sources told ESPN the Big East is having a hard time putting together a long-term television contract with the membership in flux for 2014 and beyond.

Neither the Big East nor the Mountain West champion is guaranteed a spot in the four current BCS bowls after the FBS playoffs begin in 2014.

The Mountain West has had no discussions with San Diego State, which is also scheduled to leave the conference in fall 2013, the source told ESPN.

The Aztecs and Broncos are scheduled to place the rest of their sports in the Big West. San Diego State worked hard to ensure the Broncos also could join the Aztecs in the Big West since Boise State would join Hawaii as the only non-California schools in the conference.

The Big East, which has a television contract for football in fall 2013, but not the 2013-14 basketball season yet, released a football schedule that included Boise State on Dec. 11.

The Big East announced it would have a two-division format for football, with Boise State in a West Division with San Diego State, Central Florida, SMU, Houston and Memphis. The East Division is slated to include Rutgers, Louisville, Connecticut, Cincinnati, Temple and South Florida.

Boise State's Big East schedule for 2013 had games against Houston, Louisville, Memphis and Rutgers at home with conference road games at Cincinnati, San Diego State, SMU and Temple.

Sources at Cincinnati and UConn are under the impression, even if it's not known to be true yet, that the Big Ten will raid the ACC for two more schools -- North Carolina and Georgia Tech.

The source said that current and scheduled 2013 Mountain West members New Mexico, Colorado State, UNLV, Air Force, Wyoming, Nevada, Fresno State and incoming Utah State and San Jose State -- and Hawaii in just football -- have pledged a commitment to the Mountain West. The hope is Boise State will reconsider and come back to the Mountain West.

The remaining Mountain West members are attempting to convince Boise State that it would have more security staying put rather than going to a conference that could still lose two key members in Cincinnati and UConn if there is more movement by the Big Ten and ACC. Cincinnati and UConn were public about their desire to join the ACC, but Louisville was chosen over the two rivals.

At this point, both schools have to stay in the Big East, but sources at Cincinnati and UConn are under the impression, even if it's not known to be true yet, that the Big Ten will raid the ACC for two more schools -- North Carolina and Georgia Tech.

Both Cincinnati and UConn sources have said they ultimately think their schools will be in the ACC.

Of course, the Big Ten may not move beyond 14 members. Still, ACC schools that could be ripe for poaching -- Florida State and Clemson for a possible Big 12 play and NC State and Virginia Tech as a possibility to the SEC -- are waiting to see what happens with a lawsuit over whether Maryland has to pay a $52 million exit fee to join the Big Ten.

Boise State hasn't made any public statements that it won't continue its Big East commitment for 2013. But a decision would have to be made soon because of scheduling issues that would arise the longer this continues.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Another nail in the Big East Coffin...

Sources: Boise State staying in MWC
By Brett McMurphy

Boise State will remain a member of the Mountain West Conference and will not join the Big East in 2013, sources told ESPN on Monday.

The Broncos' decision on Monday is the latest crippling blow to the Big East Conference, which has had 14 schools announce they were leaving the league in the past two years.

The Broncos will remain a Mountain West member in all sports instead of joining the Big East next year as a football-only member and the Big West in all other sports.

Though Boise State never spent a day in the Big East, the Broncos still must pay a $10 million exit fee to the Big East. The Mountain West is expected to help pay that fee, sources said.

As devastating as Boise State's decision is to the Big East, it's just as big a boost to the future of the Mountain West.

With Boise State remaining in the MWC, the league will have 11 football members in 2013: Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State and Wyoming.

Boise State's decision also will impact the Mountain West's television deal. Last week, the MWC and CBS agreed to restructure their deal, which will allow the Mountain West to sell packages to two other networks. With Boise State remaining, the value of the MWC's deal could increase to at least $25 million, sources told ESPN.

Meanwhile, the Big East still tries to negotiate its new media rights deal  the league's basketball deal expires after this season and the football deal expires after the 2013-14 season  with an uncertain future.

In November, the Big East announced Boise State would be in the league's West division along with San Diego State, Houston, Memphis, SMU and Temple. The East division: Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, UConn, South Florida and UCF.

It's unknown now if the Big East will keep the two-division format next season with only 11 members in 2013.

There also remains the possibility the Big East could lose another member as San Diego State may return to the Mountain West.

The Aztecs have repeatedly said they are fully committed to the Big East. Yet with Boise State remaining in the Mountain West, the Aztecs' Big East contract allows them to withdraw from the Big East without paying an exit fee if there is not another Big East member located west of the Rocky Mountains.

Boise State initially was sought after by the Big East to help bolster its football product after the losses of West Virginia and TCU to the Big 12.

Since Chris Petersen became the Broncos' coach in 2006, Boise State is 84-8, finishing with four top 10 Associated Press rankings in the last seven seasons.

While Boise State was trying to make a decision between the MWC and Big East, sources told ESPN that the Broncos were trying to get either league to allow Boise State to retain its home television rights.

Such an arrangement is unheard of for a conference member. There are no schools in any FBS conference that retains its home television rights.

With neither conference willing to agree to that arrangement, Boise State ultimately chose to remain in the Mountain West because of the MWC's geographic proximity and stability as well as the Big East's instability.

Boise State initially signed a contract on Dec. 7, 2011 to join the Big East on July 1, 2013.

At the time, Boise Stae president Robert Kustra said: "We've made the commitment to the Big East. I like the idea of introducing Boise State's brand of football east of the Mississippi. This will be the only conference in four time zones from coast-to-coast. That is very appealing to us. We intend to stay."

Yet during the next several months, Boise State continued to reconsider its decision.

In May, Boise State athletic director Mark Coyle met with officials from the Mountain West and MWC member schools in Boise. The Broncos also waited until literally the last minute on June 30 to formally withdraw from the league  nearly seven months after signing to join the Big East.

In November, ESPN reported Boise State was still reconsidering its decision to join the Big East and discussing the possibility with the MWC.

Boise State becomes the second school to announce it was joining the Big East, only to change its mind and never play in the Big East. TCU also planned to join the Big East, but instead paid a $5 million exit fee and joined the Big 12.

Without Boise State and the announcement that the league's seven Catholic basketball schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- are leaving the league, the Big East's future membership remains in flux.

Besides the possibility of losing San Diego State, sources told ESPN that Houston and SMU, scheduled to join the Big East next season, are among four possible teams the Mountain West may target along with Tulsa and UTEP. The Mountain West will look to add a 12th member by 2014, sources said.

Louisville (to the ACC) and Rutgers (Big Ten) are leaving the Big East, most likely in 2014. The Big East will add East Carolina and Tulane in 2014 as replacements for UL and RU, while Navy is scheduled to join in 2015.

However, Navy may now be wavering. Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk told the Baltimore Sun on Dec. 13 Navy "will take a real hard look at what's left standing" before deciding whether to join the Big East.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:33 pm 
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When Boise State, a program that no one cares about drops out from you that's a very bad sign. You'd have to imagine the rest of the west is looking to jump too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:57 pm 
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How did Uconn end up in such a bad place?


San Diego State rejoins MWC

By Brett McMurphy | ESPN.com

San Diego State will remain a member of the Mountain West Conference and will not join the Big East this fall.

With the reinstatement of San Diego State in the Mountain West Conference, the Big East has now had 19 schools depart for other conferences.

The Mountain West's Board of Directors voted Wednesday afternoon to reinstate San Diego State this fall. The Aztecs were scheduled to leave the MWC and join the Big East on July 1 as a football-only member and the Big West in all other sports. However, the Aztecs will remain a member of the Mountain West in all sports.

"San Diego State University is pleased to be continuing as a full member of the Mountain West Conference," SDSU president Dr. Elliot Hirshman said in a joint statement released by the MWC. "We are excited about the opportunities our partnership provides for the development of the conference and San Diego State University's athletic programs."

San Diego State's decision comes on the heels of Boise State's Dec. 31 decision to remain in the MWC and not join the Big East as a football-only member.

The Aztecs are the 16th school to announce they were leaving the Big East in the past two years.

With SDSU and Boise State remaining, the MWC will have 12 football members this fall -- Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State and Wyoming.

As far as the Mountain West's divisions, the league's athletic directors and presidents must approve those. Sources told ESPN the most likely would be the six Pacific Time Zone members: Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, San Diego State, San Jose State and UNLV; and the six Mountain West time zone members: Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, New Mexico, Utah State and Wyoming.

Sources also said that the MWC athletic directors and presidents are expected to approve a conference championship game for the upcoming season. On Jan. 8 in Miami, MWC commissioner Craig Thompson told ESPN that his league's presidents must vote by a three-fourths majority to approve San Diego State's return to the league.

That approval came Wednesday afternoon.

"With today's announcement, SDSU's membership continues uninterrupted and helps the Mountain West maintain a solid foundation going forward," Thompson said in a statement. And because Boise State changed its mind about joining the Big East, the Aztecs will not have to pay an exit fee to leave the Big East. In SDSU's contract with the Big East, the Aztecs' exit fee is withdrawn if there was not another Big East member located west of the Rocky Mountains.

When Boise State announced Dec. 31 it wasn't joining the Big East, San Diego State athletic director Jim Sterk said the Broncos' decision "represents a significant change in conference realignment."

San Diego State joins Boise State and TCU as schools that signed contracts to join the Big East only to change their mind before actually ever playing in the Big East.

"On behalf of the BIG EAST Conference Presidents and Directors of Athletics, I want to wish San Diego State the best," Big East commissioner Michael Aresco said in a statement. "We have enjoyed working with President Elliot Hirshman and Director of Athletics Jim Sterk and our membership has the highest regard for them and for their institution." On Jan. 8, Aresco told ESPN that if his league lost San Diego State, it would remain at 10 football members -- Cincinnati, Houston, Louisville, Memphis, Rutgers, SMU, South Florida, Temple, UCF and UConn -- for this fall.

In 2014, East Carolina and Tulane will join the Big East to replace Louisville and Rutgers, who are leaving for the ACC and Big Ten, respectively. Aresco said it was "unlikely" ECU or Tulane would join the Big East in 2013. ECU, which was originally sought as a football-only member, is now expected to become an all sports member in 2014.

Navy is scheduled to join in 2015 as a football-only member, giving the Big East 11 football members. Tulsa is being targeted to become the Big East's 12th member in 2014, sources told ESPN.

The Big East's seven Catholic basketball schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- announced last month they were leaving the league. However, their departure date has not been determined.

Notre Dame, a Big East member in all sports but football, also announced last year it was leaving for the ACC. The Fighting Irish's departure date also is unknown.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:21 pm 
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And its just about officially over.

Big East football schools will get almost all of a $110 million pot in a deal that will allow seven departing basketball schools to keep the name Big East and start playing in their own conference next season, a person familiar with the negotiations says.

The person spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the separation agreement has not yet been finalized. That is likely to happen by the end of the week. The football schools will receive approximately $100 million under the agreement.

The basketball schools will receive $10 million, the Big East name and the right to play their conference tournament at Madison Square Garden.

Of the $110 million in exit fees, holdover members Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida will get the biggest share, but the new football members -- Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Temple, East Carolina, Tulane and Navy -- also will receive a share of the exit fees to help compensate for the lower-than-expected worth of the media rights deal, sources told ESPN's Brett McMurphy.

One athletic director told ESPN's Andy Katz that the conference will take $15 million off the top for legal fees, consultants and other service.

The Big East's stash of cash has built up in recent years through a combination of exit fees, entry fees and money the league's members earned in the NCAA men's basketball tournament. Since 2011, the Big East has lost 16 schools that were either members or dropped out before playing a game. That figure includes the seven Catholic basketball schools.

The so-called Catholic 7, which is expected to add at least two more members before it begins competition in the 2013-14 school year, is made up of Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette and DePaul. Butler, Xavier and Creighton also will join the league, which will begin play in 2013, sources told McMurphy.

The new Big East has a television deal from Fox waiting for it, though it still needs to hire a commissioner and set up a league office.

As part of the Catholic 7 schools' exit agreement with the Big East, the schools will keep all of their NCAA tournament units, sources told McMurphy

Big East commissioner Mike Aresco has said the conference is looking at adding another member to give it an even 12. It would then break into two divisions of six and play a football championship game.

The Big East football schools recently agreed to a seven-year deal worth $130 million with ESPN. However, the first year of the deal will be reduced from $10 million to a lower amount, a source told McMurphy, because of the departure of the seven basketball schools.

The Big East will receive $20 million annually for the final six years of the deal, or about $2 million per school, sources told McMurphy.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:17 am 
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I understand this was the best option for the Catholic 7 but you have to think that this conference will still be treated like a slightly better Atlantic 10 at least in terms of interest. They'll have some top 25 teams but besides Georgetown and maybe Villanova who really gets anyone excited? It will be interesting to see what happens with Madison Square Garden. You know they'll be talking with the Big Ten and the ACC. I think the ACC is much more likely though.

If the Big East starts playing in the Barclays Center once MSG sees the poor ticket sales from a Butler-Marquette semi-final they'll be looking for something more relevant.

Also, being a basketball only league in a sports environment where football is king will further erode the brand.

So what happens to Connecticut and Cincinnati? Do they just hope that the ACC comes calling one day?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So what happens to Connecticut and Cincinnati? Do they just hope that the ACC comes calling one day?


Would the B1G want to expand its northeast presence and add UConn? Doesn't seem like they would want to take on Cincinnati too. But UConn and one other school could give them their superconference.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Old Man River wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So what happens to Connecticut and Cincinnati? Do they just hope that the ACC comes calling one day?


Would the B1G want to expand its northeast presence and add UConn? Doesn't seem like they would want to take on Cincinnati too. But UConn and one other school could give them their superconference.
They seem to have almost no interest in Connecticut. I think there was talk of a Connecticut/Notre Dame combination but the Notre Dame possibility seems to have been passed on by both sides.

Connecticut would probably be in the ACC if they hadn't sued the departing Big East schools who now are supposedly blocking them. They really did lose the most in this whole thing if they don't find a way into another conference that isn't the football leftovers of the Big East.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:03 am 
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It feels like they are holding a wake for the Big East this weekend. It's actually somewhat sad. The Big East tournament was always worth watching. Unless you love Butler and Creighton it won't be going forward.

The big question now is who will Madison Square Garden eventually target. I think the ACC and Big Ten both get courted once the current contract with the Big East runs out. I can't imagine the attendance will be good for the Big East tournament going forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:10 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It feels like they are holding a wake for the Big East this weekend. It's actually somewhat sad. The Big East tournament was always worth watching. Unless you love Butler and Creighton it won't be going forward.

The big question now is who will Madison Square Garden eventually target. I think the ACC and Big Ten both get courted once the current contract with the Big East runs out. I can't imagine the attendance will be good for the Big East tournament going forward.

Leave it to Notre Dame to wear lime ass green to a wake

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:46 am 
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

The small schools can thank Ed O'Bannon for this!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:42 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:


I think this will at least destroy the hypocrisy of amateur major athletic programs. The overwhelming majority of Division I will return to pure amateurism while the big conferences will no longer have to pretend.

The landscape will essentially put big football schools into the position of hiring kids to wear a uniform with no other formal school requirements. The schools will effectively be in the business of minor league football.

The formal payment of players should legally result in them having a whole host of labor rights including worker's compensation.

I am fine with some system where an undergraduate education is promised into the future in return for playing football for the school today. Imagine how much more seriously the fringe guys would be able to take their studies at the age of 21 after having played football for four years with the NFL dream being removed from the equation. Maybe make them take core classes while playing, essentially completing two years of school in 4 years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:03 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
The landscape will essentially put big football schools into the position of hiring kids to wear a uniform with no other formal school requirements. The schools will effectively be in the business of minor league football.
While I think the players should get a fairly generous stiped to go along with the expense free living they get, I don't like that extreme either. I still think there needs to be some link as a college student. The bigger question is why aren't they doing a better job preparing the players for life after college without the NFL. A large majority of college players even in the big conferences will never play an NFL down.

We'd have thousands of people in their early 20s who haven't opened a book in 4 or 5 years with a decent bank account if they were smart in saving at the age of 19. I doubt many would do well in college either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:31 am 
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but imagine walking into 100 level college classes as a motivated 22 year old rather than an unfocused 18 year old.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:01 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I am fine with some system where an undergraduate education is promised into the future in return for playing football for the school today. Imagine how much more seriously the fringe guys would be able to take their studies at the age of 21 after having played football for four years with the NFL dream being removed from the equation. Maybe make them take core classes while playing, essentially completing two years of school in 4 years.

This is a very good point. The extent to which student-athletes are students is so often compromised by their athletic commitments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:40 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
but imagine walking into 100 level college classes as a motivated 22 year old rather than an unfocused 18 year old.
I think that would be fine for the ones who were already good students but in general those kids are fine juggling school and sports anyways. For those who struggled to even qualify for college, I'm not sure taking 4 years off and not learning anything but football would work out as well. I think it would be great if you had a 6 year guaranteed scholarship and you could plan accordingly.

I'm just not confident that people who already struggle with academics would be able to become passable students by 22 unless they've been working on it for 4 years first.

Also, having a big group of 19 year olds with no responsibilities other than working out on a college campus would be a recipe for disaster.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:22 am 
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To make things worse, they just lost the Liberty Bowl despite taking on Memphis (which is a pretty awful football program) which was supposed to help them bring over that bowl from CUSA.

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