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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:30 am 
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I didn't know he was on the Cubs. That had to be far more embarrassing than missing that ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:47 am 
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he was good before OPS was invented.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:52 am 
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Paul Sullivan's headline today says it is "An error to define Buckner by gaffe..."

The article then proceeds to discuss little more than the aforementioned gaffe.

Quote:
http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=6b52ce05-d078-45bb-a02f-0d65b6c46f2d

BILL BUCKNER 1949-2019

An error to define Buckner by gaffe
Legacy exceeds fateful grounder that cost Red Sox in 1986 Series


Paul SullivanOn baseball
It says a lot about Bill Buckner’s character that he became friends with Mookie Wilson, whose slow-rolling grounder went through Buckner’s legs and altered the narrative of a stellar major-league career.

Buckner’s error, the one that handed the Mets an extra-inning victory over the Red Sox in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series, was the first thing most of us thought about upon learning of his death Monday from Lewy body dementia.

“We developed a relationship that lasted well over 30 years,” Wilson said in a statement released by the Mets. “I felt badly for some of the things he went through. Bill was a great, great baseball player whose legacy should not be defined by one play.”

That one play didn’t define Buckner, and he was able to get some closure in Boston when he returned to Fenway Park 22 years later and received a standing ovation.

But it still haunted him most of the rest of his post-Game 6 life, a fate Buckner seemed to understand when he met with reporters late on the night of Game 6. Tribune columnist Bob Verdi wrote “nobody felt lower — but put up a braver front — than Buckner.”

“I’ll have to live with this,” Buckner told the awaiting writers. “I was having a lot of fun until that. Great game tonight. I haven’t let many get through me like that. Can’t remember the last game I lost that way. I wish it hadn’t been a World Series game. At least it was only the sixth game, not the seventh. We can still get them tomorrow.”

Tribune baseball writer Jerome Holtzman didn’t blame Buckner for the Red Sox’s Game 6 collapse. In his report on deadline from Shea Stadium on the night of the Game 6 gaffe, Holtzman noted Buckner was traded by the Cubs to make way for Leon Durham, who let a ball go through his legs in the decisive loss to the Padres in the 1984 National League Championship Series.

“A repeat of that play — no, this was a tougher play — occurred in the 10th inning Saturday night in Game 6 of the World Series,” Holtzman wrote. “Mookie Wilson’s tricky grounder went through the wicket of Buckner’s bowed and battered legs for an error that enabled the Mets to score the winning run in a 6-5 victory that kept them alive and forced Game 7, now scheduled for Monday night.

“Because Buckner was charged with the error, the Ex-Cub Factor resurfaced, further evidence of this fatal syndrome. The charge is unfair. Several of Buckner’s teammates — catcher Rich Gedman and relief pitchers Calvin Schiraldi and Bob Stanley — were guilty of considerably larger blunders during the Mets’ decisive rally. … Had the ball been hit sharply, Buckner could have charged and made the putout unassisted. Instead, he laid back, probably waiting to see if the ball would carom off the bag. It didn’t and instead rolled through his legs. (Ray) Knight scored from second, and the game was over.”

Buckner’s error fed into the handy narrative that the Red Sox, who had not won a World Series since 1918, were cursed. The next spring training, Buckner blamed the media for having “blown it out of proportion.” But it only got worse. Boston Globe writer Dan Shaughnessy made it a central part of a book on Red Sox history titled “The Curse of the Bambino,” referring to it as an “unspeakable error (that) capped the most devastating loss in Red Sox history and set the table for a Game 7 that all Sox fans knew the team could not win.”

The media continued to pound on Buckner. He was released by the Red Sox on July 23, 1987, saying “everybody in this town, including the Red Sox holds that (error) against me. I don’t think I lost the World Series.”

After years of stewing over his treatment, and after the Red Sox ended the “curse” with two World Series championships in 2004 and ’07, Buckner accepted the Red Sox’s invitation to throw out the first pitch in the Fenway Park opener in 2008.

“In my heart, I had to forgive the media for what they put me and my family through,” he said. “I’ve done that. I’m over that. I just try to think of the positives, the happy things, the friendships.”

Buckner’s friendship with Wilson showed he had accepted his place in baseball history. He even had a sense of humor about the gaffe. When Buckner was named White Sox hitting coach before the 1996 season, I asked him if returning to Fenway Park that season was going to be difficult to experience.

“A lot of good things happened in my career,” he said. “A lot of people think about the World Series thing. I look at it this way: I don’t have to worry about that. I’m not a fielding coach. I’m a hitting coach.”

Buckner refused to let the worst moment in his career define him.

That’s a legacy anyone would be proud of.

psullivan@chicagotribune.com

Twitter @PWSullivan

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:54 am 
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tommy wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Image



what kind of asshole do you have to be to wear something like this?

I don't think the Cubs had names on their home unis back then, so he's a moron, too.

Chick looks like she could be decent, though.

Oversized t-shirt. That's evidence to the contrary.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 am 
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Dude was one tough SOB and a great hitter. Played the 1970 season (minors) with his jaw wired shut. Broken his jaw in an outfield collision with another player.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:26 am 
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tommy wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Image



what kind of asshole do you have to be to wear something like this?

I don't think the Cubs had names on their home unis back then, so he's a moron, too.

Chick looks like she could be decent, though.


Mets you dumb ass. There is literally a Met's logo in the fucking picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:29 am 
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newper, where does Billy Bucker's moooostache rank for you? It has to be up there.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:40 pm 
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He is easily one that you forget just how good he was until you start looking at the numbers.

It truly is a shame that so many remember him for the world series blunder. He was so much better than that and he handled that whole deal like a true professional.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:46 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
He is easily one that you forget just how good he was until you start looking at the numbers.

It truly is a shame that so many remember him for the world series blunder. He was so much better than that and he handled that whole deal like a true professional.


I think he's remembered so much for his world series blunder because so often when people discuss him, it starts with 'shame that so many remember him for the word series blunder.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
RFDC wrote:
He is easily one that you forget just how good he was until you start looking at the numbers.

It truly is a shame that so many remember him for the world series blunder. He was so much better than that and he handled that whole deal like a true professional.


I think he's remembered so much for his world series blunder because so often when people discuss him, it starts with 'shame that so many remember him for the word series blunder.

Do you always have to be an asshat?

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:48 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
RFDC wrote:
He is easily one that you forget just how good he was until you start looking at the numbers.

It truly is a shame that so many remember him for the world series blunder. He was so much better than that and he handled that whole deal like a true professional.


I think he's remembered so much for his world series blunder because so often when people discuss him, it starts with 'shame that so many remember him for the word series blunder.

Do you always have to be an asshat?


It's kind of my role here, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Bernstein has Fergie Jenkins on this morning to talk about Buckner and starts out by shitting on Buckner and hitters of that era in general by mentioning that they didn't know back then that launch angle and homers are where it's at...those old hitters thought hitting for average, not striking out, and hitting line drives and doubles was what baseball was all about. Idiots!

It was really an unlikable moment for Danny.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:03 pm 
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That implies that he has likeable moments.

Sure, maybe at his Passover Seder he's likable, but the rest of the time he is a complete douche.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:15 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Bernstein has Fergie Jenkins on this morning to talk about Buckner and starts out by shitting on Buckner and hitters of that era in general by mentioning that they didn't know back then that launch angle and homers are where it's at...those old hitters thought hitting for average, not striking out, and hitting line drives and doubles was what baseball was all about. Idiots!

It was really an unlikable moment for Danny.



See, for a second I thought you meant that Fergie was bring an ass which was a surprise. Other way around. Not do much.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:24 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Bernstein has Fergie Jenkins on this morning to talk about Buckner and starts out by shitting on Buckner and hitters of that era in general by mentioning that they didn't know back then that launch angle and homers are where it's at...those old hitters thought hitting for average, not striking out, and hitting line drives and doubles was what baseball was all about. Idiots!

It was really an unlikable moment for Danny.

Smart.Fans.Baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I didn't know he was on the Cubs. That had to be far more embarrassing than missing that ball.



I never knew he was a cub either.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:30 pm 
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312player wrote:
Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

Tony Gwynn hits .280 at best vs the modern shift.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

Tony Gwynn hits .280 at best vs the modern shift.



Bullahit

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:32 pm 
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312player wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

Tony Gwynn hits .280 at best vs the modern shift.



Bullahit

That's true and Tedd Ballgame can't hit his way out of the jar that holds his head with the shift. 400 my ass shove your baseball nostagalia up our arse, still better than the fucking nba


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Better than the NBA and the NFL, Gwynn could go the other way, he wasn't a pull hitter. He'd beat the shit out of a shift.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:36 pm 
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The "shift" was created for Ted Williams in the 40's by Lou Boudreau. Williams didn't give a rat's ass...He got his hits anyway and didn't bother trying to go the other way...He didn't need to. Of course, he was the Splendid Splinter...the greatest hitter of all time.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm 
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They didn't shift Tony Gwynn, so therefore Gwynn can't beat a shift????


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

Tony Gwynn hits .280 at best vs the modern shift.

This might be the all-time worst take ever posted on this board

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Carmen and Jurk just had Bobby Valentine on to talk about Buckner. ( college teammates , roommates) He gave a fantastic interview about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:50 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe that's why baseball ratings are down, it's boring as fuck watching guys strike out on garbage pitches. The Cubs had 16k as a team yesterday, Tony Gwynn didn't get that many in a fucking season.

Tony Gwynn hits .280 at best vs the modern shift.

This might be the all-time worst take ever posted on this board


He hit 320ish to end his career...really it's not that absurd. With no power and better data teams absolutely would have shifted vs his strengths.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Wildly overrated player. The original light-hitting 1B. Career OPS+ of 100. Great example of how futile the Cubs were at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:02 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Wildly overrated player. The original light-hitting 1B. Career OPS+ of 100. Great example of how futile the Cubs were at the time.

It's 2019 and the White Sox are still drafting "Bill Buckners" top 10! Sad!


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:12 pm 
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312player wrote:
Better than the NBA and the NFL, Gwynn could go the other way, he wasn't a pull hitter. He'd beat the shit out of a shift.

I'm not too familiar with Gwynn, but . . . yeah, didn't he hit to all fields? He must have if he hit .300 with two strikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Buckner
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:18 pm 
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My god, Buckner sucked, Tony Gwynn sucked, the Stones sucked, the Beatles sucked...lot of bad takes 'round here.

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