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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
Jay is signed for one more season, so make him play for a new contract. Doesn't appear to the thought of some here and guys like Hub. Remember, Hub is the one who talked about a draft-pick trade for Cutler then said there was no QB he'd like to take with the high pick.
The Bears would be stupid not to listen to offers, even if they don't draft a QB in round one.

It's not impossible to find a new QB in the offseason. 5 NFL teams did it and made the playoffs this year(counting Kapernick who is actually a second year player).


This season is quite the abnormality. Indy, Washington used their top picks to take a quartrerback in one of the deepest drafts in some time. Cannot count on that every year -- especially in 2013. Wilson is kind of a diamond in the rough, but that was more about the team fitting the offense to fit him.
You said S.F., but you're going to bring Payton Manning as an example. Cmon, Rick. Name me another situation like this in the past 20 years. One of the best QBs of all time suffers a possible career-theatening injury -- Favre doesn't apply here -- team takes a flyer on him and the gain the No. 1 seed in their division.
Basing the possibility of trading Cutler in hopes of turning the offense around on these quite abnormal situations is quite the stretch.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
Who's to say the team gets a reverse Lovie, where the offensive thrives but the defense hovers around mediocrity.
That is the hope. That is how you win Super Bowls.

That's maybe how you might get to a Super Bowl, certainly not how you win it.
More often than not, the Super Bowl winning QB has thrown for a lot of yards in the regular season. The only recent exceptions to this was the first one Eli won and what Big Ben has done.

Even the Giants last year had Eli have a monster year.

You misunderstood me. My point deals with great QBs and mediocre Ds to win Super Bowls.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
This season is quite the abnormality. Indy, Washington used their top picks to take a quartrerback in one of the deepest drafts in some time. Cannot count on that every year -- especially in 2013. Wilson is kind of a diamond in the rough, but that was more about the team fitting the offense to fit him.
You can't count on anything. I'm not saying they'll find a way to get Peyton Manning, but the NFL is filled with teams who weren't afraid to take a chance. The last thing they should do is settle on Cutler because they aren't 100% certain of what will happen with the draft or free agency.
Brian's Mojito wrote:
You said S.F., but you're going to bring Payton Manning as an example. Cmon, Rick. Name me another situation like this in the past 20 years. One of the best QBs of all time suffers a possible career-theatening injury -- Favre doesn't apply here -- team takes a flyer on him and the gain the No. 1 seed in their division.
Vick and Brees both were coming off issues and at least temporarily it worked out very well. For Brees, it obviously worked out well still.

Your point just seems to be "The replacement may be worse!". If that was how we made decisions, Lovie, and Angelo would still be here and our offensive line would see no changes next year.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
You misunderstood me. My point deals with great QBs and mediocre Ds to win Super Bowls.
What do you mean? A majority of the Super Bowl winning defenses have been mediocre.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
You misunderstood me. My point deals with great QBs and mediocre Ds to win Super Bowls.
What do you mean? A majority of the Super Bowl winning defenses have been mediocre.

Name me these mediocre defenses. In somce cases, injuries played a part in regular-season struggles, but most teams like Indy in 2006 -- were healthy for the postseason run.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
This season is quite the abnormality. Indy, Washington used their top picks to take a quartrerback in one of the deepest drafts in some time. Cannot count on that every year -- especially in 2013. Wilson is kind of a diamond in the rough, but that was more about the team fitting the offense to fit him.
You can't count on anything. I'm not saying they'll find a way to get Peyton Manning, but the NFL is filled with teams who weren't afraid to take a chance. The last thing they should do is settle on Cutler because they aren't 100% certain of what will happen with the draft or free agency.
Brian's Mojito wrote:
You said S.F., but you're going to bring Payton Manning as an example. Cmon, Rick. Name me another situation like this in the past 20 years. One of the best QBs of all time suffers a possible career-theatening injury -- Favre doesn't apply here -- team takes a flyer on him and the gain the No. 1 seed in their division.
Vick and Brees both were coming off issues and at least temporarily it worked out very well. For Brees, it obviously worked out well still.

Your point just seems to be "The replacement may be worse!". If that was how we made decisions, Lovie, and Angelo would still be here and our offensive line would see no changes next year.


Not entirely. If this was last year, most certainly I would think about it. From a draft perpsective, no one really jumps out at you. Free-agent wise, don't know if there's anyone there.
I never said don't try it. The timing has to be right. I just don't thing the timing is right for it this offseason. Possibly next year with Johnny Football?
The Bears should always keep their options open, but you based your opinion on what happened this year. QB draft classes like this are few and far between. The situations with Vick and Brees aren't even close to Manning's aquisition.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Quote:
QB draft classes like this are few and far between.

The QB class next year should be loaded too.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:22 am 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
You misunderstood me. My point deals with great QBs and mediocre Ds to win Super Bowls.
What do you mean? A majority of the Super Bowl winning defenses have been mediocre.

Name me these mediocre defenses. In somce cases, injuries played a part in regular-season struggles, but most teams like Indy in 2006 -- were healthy for the postseason run.
Well, obviously they all played better in the playoffs, but when you look at the whole season, many of the defenses of the last 10 years were mediocre. I may have been wrong that it was a majority, but teams like the Giants last year, the Saints, the Colts, the Giants in 2007, and the Colts in 2006 all had mediocre regular season defenses.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:40 am 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
Not entirely. If this was last year, most certainly I would think about it. From a draft perpsective, no one really jumps out at you. Free-agent wise, don't know if there's anyone there.
I never said don't try it. The timing has to be right. I just don't thing the timing is right for it this offseason. Possibly next year with Johnny Football?
Russell Wilson didn't jump out either. Many thought the Broncos were dumb for signing Peyton. Remember, they said "He can't even throw at full speed yet!". Many thought the Redskins gave up way too much. Most thought Ryan Tannehill was a huge reach. You just have the benefit of hindsight here. Last year may have been a very good QB year, but look at the previous year. Andy Dalton looks pretty good. We know Cam Newton is good, even if his team doesn't win. Colin Kapernick looks pretty good, though I still think he's not ready for prime time. Locker and Gabbert seem to suck, and Ponder is inconsistent.

You also have to keep in mind just where the Bears are. It's pretty widely accepted that this team as constructed is done. There is going to be major roster turnover next year. I doubt the goal is to win the Super Bowl next year since most of the moves will probably hurt the short term chances of success. Having Jay Cutler play mediocre for another year doesn't really do much unless your plan is to go the next 5 years with him and hope that he finally starts playing well.

Also, if the limiting factor of Jay Cutler truly is a poor offensive line that is even more reason to start rebuilding so you can use those picks to build an offensive line. That's the amusing thing. Everyone makes excuses for Jay's play, but ultimately, if those excuses are true, then it's the #1 reason why Jay Cutler should be traded.
Brian's Mojito wrote:
The Bears should always keep their options open, but you based your opinion on what happened this year. QB draft classes like this are few and far between. The situations with Vick and Brees aren't even close to Manning's aquisition.
You can discount any one situation, but it's not nearly as hard to find a QB in this league as you make it seem. 7 or 8 teams have done it well in the past 2 years alone. It's pretty easy to envision a Bears team with Alex Smith and a rookie QB backing him up and preparing for the future. Let Phil Emery earn that scouting praise he gets and find the next Wilson or Kapernick.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
What are your aspirations? To be "not bad" or an NFL juggernaut?


Who are the "juggernaut" teams? Do they have all-pro QBs or is that player interchangeable?

I want a team that annually competes for the division. This year 10-6 puts them third, toughest division in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:08 pm 
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This team had no chance of winning the Super Bowl. Zero.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:11 am 
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[quote="FloydGondolli"]Lovie had been here too long. The players were too comfortable with him, which was evident by the fact that they all LOVED him so much. This team has been the epitome of slightly above mediocre under his tenure. Even back to the Superbowl year they were the team "we thought they were".

And his vaunted defense was passive just like him - a defense that makes plays off of opponents mistakes. This is good against average to below average teams because they make lots of mistakes, but it's a very poor formula when defending good teams that don't make those mistakes. What happens is they just march down the field, albeit in 10 plays rather than 5. Could this be one reason his record against good teams sucks? You bet your ass it is.

This is spot on 100% right. Well said.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:29 am 
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Each situation has a different set of variables. In the Bears case, is there anyone on the draft radar -- doesn't seem to be -- what about free agents -- don't think there's much their either. The GM seems to believe that more pieces need to be put together to help Cutler -- and I can agree to that.
Cutler is running out of mulligans -- like Lovie did. It appears Emery will try to upgrade the offense, but results must be in the offing this next season.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:57 am 
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This Bears team was 10-6 this year. How many more games can they win with a real OC & a head coach who understands how the game of Football is now played? The Bears have a good enough core of players to contend for a championship next year. The old days of having a long term rebuilding plan are long gone. Team can go from last to first & from first to last.

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