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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:48 pm 
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You said it, not me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:46 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
the basic gist of my original comment is that whether you know a lot about the finer points of music, or know very little about it other than what sounds good to your ear, both opinions are equally valid. arguments like this are impossible to win or lose. i have this discussion with a friend of mine who is a huge music aficionado frequently, and it drives him crazy. it all boils down to one thing: do you like what you hear? A hell of a lot of people liked ABBA and Barry Manilow and Celine Dion, and as offensive as this is to "true musicians", those acts found something that people really enjoyed listening to either by luck or by design, and that is all that really matters, not how technically proficient the musicians were. the musicians i have talked music with over the years always get worked up and offended by that, and i sensed that in this thread as well.


Barry Manilow is one of the greatest musical composers of all time. Seriously. The guy has a way with melody & chord progressions. He is a guilty pleasure of mine.
How many people know that "I Write The Songs" was actually written by Bruce Johnson from the Beach Boys?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:13 am 
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I just want to say Im %100 sure the filmmakers and actors of either Hot Shots movie would prolly tell you Citizen Kane is by far the better film.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:54 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:


(b) Rap is "music" only because of the sounds they put behind it; I generally only listen for the groove and the occasional entertaining line ... take away the backing sounds and it's no longer music. Not sure how that's lost on anyone exactly.

I dont think this got enough attention

Its not that contreversial or insulting. Although with the first statement, isnt that true of all lyrics regardless of genre?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:


(b) Rap is "music" only because of the sounds they put behind it; I generally only listen for the groove and the occasional entertaining line ... take away the backing sounds and it's no longer music. Not sure how that's lost on anyone exactly.

I dont think this got enough attention

Its not that contreversial or insulting. Although with the first statement, isnt that true of all lyrics regardless of genre?


Well, generally a song has a melody that can be sung without the music and even if you completely changed the words the song would be instantly recognizable. That's usually not so with rap although I suppose the "flow" might be considered a melody of sorts.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:31 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Its not that contreversial or insulting. Although with the first statement, isnt that true of all lyrics regardless of genre?


Well, generally a song has a melody that can be sung without the music and even if you completely changed the words the song would be instantly recognizable. That's usually not so with rap although I suppose the "flow" might be considered a melody of sorts.

Talkin to yourself again JORR?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:19 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
Barry Manilow is one of the greatest musical composers of all time. Seriously. The guy has a way with melody & chord progressions. He is a guilty pleasure of mine.


That may or may not be the case. But the thing is, I never believed a fuckin' word Barry Manilow sang. And that's what rock music is all about- ideas and feelings. It's not about being the best singer or guitar player. Pavarotti could sing "Sonic Reducer" "better" than Stiv Bators. But would you believe him? I know when Stiv snarls he "don't need no human race", it's the truth. And that's one of the reasons the Beatles were so influential.

Prior to that you had songwriters and you had singers. The writers could write and the singers could sing. When the writers began singing their own songs, they couldn't necessarily "sing" the way a professional would have. But the songs were theirs and whatever was lost in technique was more than made up for with ideas and feeling. That's rock and roll, motherfuckers! Fuck Joe Satriani and Michael Buble.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:32 am 
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I sing Sonic Reducer better :P

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:04 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:


(b) Rap is "music" only because of the sounds they put behind it; I generally only listen for the groove and the occasional entertaining line ... take away the backing sounds and it's no longer music. Not sure how that's lost on anyone exactly.

I dont think this got enough attention

Its not that controversial or insulting. Although with the first statement, isnt that true of all lyrics regardless of genre?


I dont think Don Tiny has ever listened to Aesop Rock, Del the Funky Homosapien, or early Mos Def. All three of those rappers, and a lot more, have very distinct voices which add to the aesthetic of listening to them.

Most TV, pop, mainstream rap nowadays is brutal. I hate to say it, but it's almost like a minstrel show anymore. Underground group, Little Brother released an album entitled, "Minstrel Show" a few years back. Worth checking out.

Basically, my point is there are technical things rappers do to accentuate their flow and bring further melody or rhythm to the instrumental.

I guess you just gotta be an unabashed fan of hip hop to appreciate it. Granted there is a lot to hate, but if you take time to look to the underground you'll find variety you never thought existed.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Barry Manilow is one of the greatest musical composers of all time. Seriously. The guy has a way with melody & chord progressions. He is a guilty pleasure of mine.


That may or may not be the case. But the thing is, I never believed a fuckin' word Barry Manilow sang. And that's what rock music is all about- ideas and feelings. It's not about being the best singer or guitar player. Pavarotti could sing "Sonic Reducer" "better" than Stiv Bators. But would you believe him? I know when Stiv snarls he "don't need no human race", it's the truth. And that's one of the reasons the Beatles were so influential.

Prior to that you had songwriters and you had singers. The writers could write and the singers could sing. When the writers began singing their own songs, they couldn't necessarily "sing" the way a professional would have. But the songs were theirs and whatever was lost in technique was more than made up for with ideas and feeling. That's rock and roll, motherfuckers! Fuck Joe Satriani and Michael Buble.


Elvis never wrote one single song...either did Frank Sinatra. Elvis is credited with contributing lyrics to a few songs even though he really didnt. Frank has a few lyric credits too.
I prefer artists who write & sing their own compositions. Having said that, I'm a big fan of Sinatra & Buble.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Michael Buble makes me want put my head in the microwave for 23 seconds.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
Elvis never wrote one single song...either did Frank Sinatra. Elvis is credited with contributing lyrics to a few songs even though he really didnt. Frank has a few lyric credits too.
I prefer artists who write & sing their own compositions. Having said that, I'm a big fan of Sinatra & Buble.


While I'm not certain that's true, the fact is both Elvis and Sinatra were great interpreters of the songs of others. The ability to put a song across is not exclusive to the writer. However, a writer can often put his own song across despite the technical limitations of his voice simply because the story is his own. Make me believe it. Frank and Elvis do that just fine. Michael Buble does not.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:27 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Michael Buble makes me want put my head in the microwave for 23 seconds.


Michael Buble looks like an inbred DeLuise brother.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
How many people know that "I Write The Songs" was actually written by Bruce Johnson from the Beach Boys?


Me. And who is the song about? Brian Wilson.

Bruce Johnston.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:31 pm 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
Satch is a badass....that is all.

I believe that nobody could ever dispute this.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Eaglo Jeff wrote:
doug - evergreen park wrote:
Satch is a badass....that is all.

I believe that nobody could ever dispute this.


Here I am. That noodlery sucks more than ever.

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