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The money line
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=81724
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Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  The money line

After listening to Mac sweating out last weeks Indy victory vs Oakland ( bet $1000 to win $200) while his wagering is generally pretty awful I think his logic is pretty sound. If youre that confident that a team is going to win, fuck those point spreads and just put the cash on the money line. I guess the drawback is being able to absorb those rare occasions where number 16 beats number 1 but shouldnt you in the long run come out ahead if you were to isolate 1 or 2 games a week that are generally locks? Need some of the more degenerate gamblers to explain why that would be a bad strategy. Too much risk to reward im assuming will be the answer but interested in hearing thoughts.

Author:  Chus [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

badrogue17 wrote:
After listening to Mac sweating out last weeks Indy victory vs Oakland ( bet $1000 to win $200) while his wagering is generally pretty awful I think his logic is pretty sound. If youre that confident that a team is going to win, fuck those point spreads and just put the cash on the money line. I guess the drawback is being able to absorb those rare occasions where number 16 beats number 1 but shouldnt you in the long run come out ahead if you were to isolate 1 or 2 games a week that are generally locks? Need some of the more degenerate gamblers to explain why that would be a bad strategy. Too much risk to reward im assuming will be the answer but interested in hearing thoughts.


If it was that easy, there wouldn't be more hotels going up in Vegas.

The NFL is the hardest sport to beat, and the casinos will tell you that, by their limits. Most casinos will limit college basketball totals to $500 or $1000. They will take five and six figure bets on the NFL.

If you want to say screw the points, take the ML, you look to underdogs.

Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Chus wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
After listening to Mac sweating out last weeks Indy victory vs Oakland ( bet $1000 to win $200) while his wagering is generally pretty awful I think his logic is pretty sound. If youre that confident that a team is going to win, fuck those point spreads and just put the cash on the money line. I guess the drawback is being able to absorb those rare occasions where number 16 beats number 1 but shouldnt you in the long run come out ahead if you were to isolate 1 or 2 games a week that are generally locks? Need some of the more degenerate gamblers to explain why that would be a bad strategy. Too much risk to reward im assuming will be the answer but interested in hearing thoughts.


If it was that easy, there wouldn't be more hotels going up in Vegas.

The NFL is the hardest sport to beat, and the casinos will tell you that, by their limits. Most casinos will limit college basketball totals to $500 or $1000. They will take five and six figure bets on the NFL.

If you want to say screw the points, take the ML, you look to underdogs.

Mac broke it down to people who are in confidence pools. I have no research to back this up but generally dont the top confidence picks win almost every time? I dont bet but taking that Colts Raiders game as a for instance , that seemed like a good play and theres always a couple games a week where there are prohibitive favorites. If an underdog is getting 14 points or something like that, isnt it easier just to say, I'll take the favorite in that game by playing the money line. They have to win those games the majority of the time dont they? I wonder how often double digit dogs actually win the game outright.

Author:  Hawg Ass [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Interesting article about this weekends sporting activities.


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9669 ... ing-public

Author:  Chus [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

badrogue17 wrote:
Chus wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
After listening to Mac sweating out last weeks Indy victory vs Oakland ( bet $1000 to win $200) while his wagering is generally pretty awful I think his logic is pretty sound. If youre that confident that a team is going to win, fuck those point spreads and just put the cash on the money line. I guess the drawback is being able to absorb those rare occasions where number 16 beats number 1 but shouldnt you in the long run come out ahead if you were to isolate 1 or 2 games a week that are generally locks? Need some of the more degenerate gamblers to explain why that would be a bad strategy. Too much risk to reward im assuming will be the answer but interested in hearing thoughts.


If it was that easy, there wouldn't be more hotels going up in Vegas.

The NFL is the hardest sport to beat, and the casinos will tell you that, by their limits. Most casinos will limit college basketball totals to $500 or $1000. They will take five and six figure bets on the NFL.

If you want to say screw the points, take the ML, you look to underdogs.

Mac broke it down to people who are in confidence pools. I have no research to back this up but generally dont the top confidence picks win almost every time? I dont bet but taking that Colts Raiders game as a for instance , that seemed like a good play and theres always a couple games a week where there are prohibitive favorites. If an underdog is getting 14 points or something like that, isnt it easier just to say, I'll take the favorite in that game by playing the money line. They have to win those games the majority of the time dont they? I wonder how often double digit dogs actually win the game outright.


More often than it's worth to take huge money lines.

Last week, only four favorites lost straight up, with the Steelers being the biggest. If you played every favorite on the money line, you came out ahead. That won't be the case most weeks. Some weeks will be an absolute bloodbath.

In this thread, I will track every money line each week, and we can see how it plays out for the entire season.

Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

That'll be cool to watch Chus, thanks.

Author:  Chus [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Every bet will be to win $100. All lines are from scoresandodds.com. I will use closing lines from 5dimes going forward. That is the best book available to U.S. customers, or U.S. Americans, as the former Miss South Carolina calls us.

week 1
Denver -300 W (+100)
New England -430 W (+100)
Pittsburgh -240 L (-240)
New Orleans -175 W (+100)
Tampa Bay -220 L (-220)
Kansas City -200 W (+100)
Bears -160 W (+100)
Cleveland -140 L (-140)
Seattle -155 W (+100)
Detroit -210 W (+100)
Indianapolis -550 W (+100)
St. Louis -180 W (+100)
San Francisco -205 W (+100)
Dallas -175 W (+100)
Washington -185 L (-185)
Houston -260 W (+100)

week 1: 12-4 (+$415)

Houston, New England, and Indy were close, and would have been disastrous.

Author:  Chus [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 12-4 (+$415)

week 2
New England -575 W (+100)

Author:  leashyourkids [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

I bet a lot of money lines with dogs, not favorites. I've seen people absolutely wreck putting all their money on favorites. They thought there was no chance of an upset and they were wrong. I do like ML for dogs, though.

Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

I know it cant be that simplistic ( and Im sure the numbers will bear it out) but it seems that if you took the 2 biggest money lines and bet the favorites each week you'd win most of the time. I mean, do the favorites in those games actually lose most of the time straight up?

Author:  leashyourkids [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Well, you have to bet a lot to win much of anything if its a decent favorite. And since you'd have to do that, the one time you lose (say 1 in 5), you'd probably lose everything you won. I'm sure if you did it 1,000 times, you'd wind up roughly even. I'm curious to see how it goes with Chus's test study.

Author:  pittmike [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Seems like a lot of capital to front for not much return. Hi Leash. :D

Author:  leashyourkids [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Hey buddy.

Author:  newper [ Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

badrogue17 wrote:
I know it cant be that simplistic ( and Im sure the numbers will bear it out) but it seems that if you took the 2 biggest money lines and bet the favorites each week you'd win most of the time. I mean, do the favorites in those games actually lose most of the time straight up?

No, they win most of the time, but it's the amounts that make this work or not. Say a team won 9 times out of 10 and was a -1500 moneyline. 90% of the time you would risk your $1500 to win $100, but one out of the ten times, you'd lose that $1500. That would net out to a -$600 total. You simply aren't making enough to cover the one time it doesn't work. I'll run the money line for the NCAA this week and report results via a google doc link later today.

So i ran it with scores so far, and today you would be up $630 betting to win $100 for each favorite. Of course, it would also take you $447,590 to make these bets. Temple losing to Fordham cost 1375, and South Florida cost 450. Assuming some of the other in progress games go the direction they are going (UNLV loses, ASU loses, etc.) You also were somewhat close to losing 5k on NIU (they won by 10) as well as 45k on Michigan (they won by 4.)

Author:  Chus [ Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 12-4 (+$415)

week 2
New England -575 W (+100)
Philadelphia -310 L (-310)
Baltimore -250 W (+100)
Houston -330 W (+100)
Indianapolis -115 L (-115)
Carolina -178 L (-178)
Atlanta -205 W (+100)
Green Bay -345 W (+100)
Kansas City -168 W (+100)
Bears -250 W (+100)
New Orleans -164 W (+100)
Detroit -115 L (-115)
Oakland -190 W (+100)
Denver -185 W (+100)
Seattle -153 W (+100)
Cincinnati -280 W (+100)

week 2: 12-4 (+$482)
2013: 24-8 (+$897)

Author:  badrogue17 [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Chus wrote:
2013: 12-4 (+$415)

week 2
New England -575 W (+100)
Philadelphia -310 L (-310)
Baltimore -250 W (+100)
Houston -330 W (+100)
Indianapolis -115 L (-115)
Carolina -178 L (-178)
Atlanta -205 W (+100)
Green Bay -345 W (+100)
Kansas City -168 W (+100)
Bears -250 W (+100)
New Orleans -164 W (+100)
Detroit -115 L (-115)
Oakland -190 W (+100)
Denver -185 W (+100)
Seattle -153 W (+100)
Cincinnati -280 W (+100)

week 2: 12-4 (+$482)
2013: 24-8 (+$897)
So in 2 weeks we've out earned Macs show pot? :lol: :lol:

Author:  Chus [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

badrogue17 wrote:
Chus wrote:
2013: 12-4 (+$415)

week 2
New England -575 W (+100)
Philadelphia -310 L (-310)
Baltimore -250 W (+100)
Houston -330 W (+100)
Indianapolis -115 L (-115)
Carolina -178 L (-178)
Atlanta -205 W (+100)
Green Bay -345 W (+100)
Kansas City -168 W (+100)
Bears -250 W (+100)
New Orleans -164 W (+100)
Detroit -115 L (-115)
Oakland -190 W (+100)
Denver -185 W (+100)
Seattle -153 W (+100)
Cincinnati -280 W (+100)

week 2: 12-4 (+$482)
2013: 24-8 (+$897)


So in 2 weeks we've out earned Macs show pot? :lol: :lol:


My kids could probably make better plays than Mac, and his crew of experts. This is a very small sample size. I suspect these numbers will not continue, especially later in the season. One of these weeks will be an absolute blood bath. I will be shocked if the balance isn't negative at season's end.

Mac and I had an exchange on twitter, where I laughed at him laying -700 on Indy ML. He claimed it was "more like -500". Why not give me the actual number? Because it was -700. He said, "if you bet every highest confidence pool pick last year, you went 14-3 $$$".

Some simple math shows that if you win $100 fourteen times, and lose $500 or more, three times, you lose money. No wonder why he gets his ass handed to him, year after year.

The idea that one should tie their bets to picks in confidence pools is ludicrous.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

It's incredible that a life-long gambler doesn't understand that.

Author:  Chus [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 24-8 (+$897)

Philadelphia -168 L -168
New Orleans -345
NY Giants -118
Dallas -162
Detroit -115
Minnesota -270
New England -320
Baltimore -120
Tennessee -147
Green Bay -145

Author:  Chus [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 24-8 (+$897)

Philadelphia -168 L -168
New Orleans -345 W +100
NY Giants -118 L
Dallas -162 W +100
Detroit -115 W +100
Minnesota -270 L -270
New England -320 W +100
Baltimore -120 W +100
Tennessee -147 W +100
Green Bay -145 L -145
Miami -143 W +100
NY Jets -132 W +100
San Fran -425 L -425
Seattle -2800 W +100
Bears -128 W +100

10-5 -$126

Broncos

Author:  Rod [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

newper wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
I know it cant be that simplistic ( and Im sure the numbers will bear it out) but it seems that if you took the 2 biggest money lines and bet the favorites each week you'd win most of the time. I mean, do the favorites in those games actually lose most of the time straight up?

No, they win most of the time, but it's the amounts that make this work or not. Say a team won 9 times out of 10 and was a -1500 moneyline. 90% of the time you would risk your $1500 to win $100, but one out of the ten times, you'd lose that $1500. That would net out to a -$600 total. You simply aren't making enough to cover the one time it doesn't work. I'll run the money line for the NCAA this week and report results via a google doc link later today.

So i ran it with scores so far, and today you would be up $630 betting to win $100 for each favorite. Of course, it would also take you $447,590 to make these bets. Temple losing to Fordham cost 1375, and South Florida cost 450. Assuming some of the other in progress games go the direction they are going (UNLV loses, ASU loses, etc.) You also were somewhat close to losing 5k on NIU (they won by 10) as well as 45k on Michigan (they won by 4.)


Yeah, it's similar to a "can't lose" horse. Every once in awhile you'll see some person (or perhaps syndicate) make a huge show bet on some dominating animal. The thinking is that he could never lose, and even if he does, he can still finish second or third and we cash our five cents on every buck. But there's a reason they actually race them. And one fourth place finish is devastating. It's just not a philosophy for long term success.

Author:  Chus [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 24-8 (+$897)

Philadelphia -168 L -168
New Orleans -345 W +100
NY Giants -118 L
Dallas -162 W +100
Detroit -115 W +100
Minnesota -270 L -270
New England -320 W +100
Baltimore -120 W +100
Tennessee -147 W +100
Green Bay -145 L -145
Miami -143 W +100
NY Jets -132 W +100
San Fran -425 L -425
Seattle -2800 W +100
Bears -128 W +100
Broncos -1750 W +100

week 3: 11-5 -$26
2013: 35-13 (+$871)

Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

this doesnt look too bad so far. Waiting for the one week for the wheels to come flying off.

Author:  conns7901 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

Hank Scorpio wrote:
this doesnt look too bad so far. Waiting for the one week for the wheels to come flying off.


Going 11-5 and losing money is brutal though.

Author:  Chus [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 35-13 (+$871)

San Fran -200 W (+100)
Pittsburgh -155 L (-155)
Baltimore -200 L (-200)
Cincinnati -185 L (-185)
Indianapolis -355 W (+100)
Seattle -113 W (+100)
Tampa Bay -133 L (-133)
Detroit -147 W (+100)
Kansas City -170 W (+100)
Tennessee -172 W (+100)
Dallas -107 L (-107)
Washington -175 W (+100)
Denver -455 W (+100)
Atlanta -154 L (-154)
New Orleans -330 W (+100)

week 4: 9-6 (-$34)
2013: 44-19 (+$837)

Author:  Chus [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 44-19 (+$837)

week 5
Cleveland -205 W +100
Kansas City -140 W +100
Miami -140 L -140
St. Louis -560 W +100
New England -137 L -137
Seattle -148 L -148
Green Bay -450 W +100
Bears -115 L -115
Philadelphia -118 W +100
Carolina -154 L -154
San Diego -245 L -245
Denver -325 W +100
San Francisco -205 W +100
Atlanta

7-6 (-$239)

Author:  Chus [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

2013: 44-19 (+$837)

week 5
Cleveland -205 W +100
Kansas City -140 W +100
Miami -140 L -140
St. Louis -560 W +100
New England -137 L -137
Seattle -148 L -148
Green Bay -450 W +100
Bears -115 L -115
Philadelphia -118 W +100
Carolina -154 L -154
San Diego -245 L -245
Denver -325 W +100
San Francisco -205 W +100
Atlanta -525 L -525

week 5: 7-7 (-$764)
2013: 51-26 (+$73)

Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

And there it is. Thanks for keeping this up Chus. It is cool to see how it has progressed. One bad Monday night game from a shitty injured team and you're fucked.

Author:  Chus [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

66% and your head is barely above water. Last week was rough, but I believe there will be one in December that will be a complete disaster.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The money line

badrogue17 wrote:
theres always a couple games a week where there are prohibitive favorites. .

Not in modern NFL

In the 80's and 90's, yes. Now not so much.

Look at next week


NEXT GAME
8:25
PM
ET
SEAHAWKSATCARDINALS




ET
BUCCANEERSATFALCONS

1:00
PM
ET
BEARSATREDSKINS

1:00
PM
ET
COWBOYSATEAGLES

1:00
PM
ET
PATRIOTSATJETS

1:00
PM
ET
BILLSATDOLPHINS

1:00
PM
ET
CHARGERSATJAGUARS

1:00
PM
ET
RAMSATPANTHERS

1:00
PM
ET
BENGALSATLIONS

4:05
PM
ET
49ERSATTITANS

4:25
PM
ET
TEXANSATCHIEFS

4:25
PM
ET
RAVENSATSTEELERS

4:25
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BROWNSATPACKERS

8:30
PM
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BRONCOSATCOLTS

MONDAY, OCTOBER 21ST
8:40
PM
ET
VIKINGSATGIANTS






Which is a lock? Seattle? on the road? Pats on road? Chargers at Jax?


The locks arent there anymore (Other than Jax on the road vs a good team which is like 4 or 5 times a year)

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