Chicago Fanatics Message Board
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/

Maywood Park
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=94309		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  C_Howitt_Fealz [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Maywood Park
Racing Board will meet June 23 to consider application to vacate live racing effective July 2. Guess this is it. Sad. But then again there are ten of us here tonight.
Author:  pittmike [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
I have zero idea how race tracks stay in business. Maybe Jorr knows?
Author:  Buster [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Many tracks have slot-infused purses. Lilttle by little that slot money is being taken away. Arlington makes it's money on admissions, concessions etc.
Author:  bigfan [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Went to one of those "Boys Days Out" with MH at Hawthorne.

They gave use some suites/skyboxes and we had our own cashiers in the room as well.

We then went outside to watch the races and about 5 rows of seats had been cleaned and painted....if you went down furthere, 90% of the seats, which was 100's of seats are covered with bird shit and rust, nobody has sat in most of those seats for years and years. It was liked they have been closed for years.
Author:  denisdman [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Been to Arlington party in the park the last two Fridays. The crowd is smaller than ever. Sad.
Author:  a retard [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Yep I have been most fridays and it is just as you say. It is a shame.
Author:  denisdman [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Rozner says slots are the answer. I disagree. Why would an operator subsidize horse racing with slot profits? If folks don't like the ponies anymore, then it should go away.
Author:  pittmike [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
It seems to me horses and buggies can only survive in a pro sports type league setup or something. That said, I cannot see even for like the Arlington million a race track can stay above water just given even the value of the real estate.
Author:  newper [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
pittmike wrote:
It seems to me horses and buggies can only survive in a pro sports type league setup or something. That said, I cannot see even for like the Arlington million a race track can stay above water just given even the value of the real estate.

Yeah pittmike, that's the way a lot of tracks have gone as of late. I kind of think it is one of those "owner's passion" type things, find it hard to believe the future generations wouldn't want to cash out on such a huge tract of land in a desirable suburb.
Author:  Rod [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
denisdman wrote:
Rozner says slots are the answer. I disagree. Why would an operator subsidize horse racing with slot profits? If folks don't like the ponies anymore, then it should go away.


The operator isn't "subsidizing" horse racing. This is crony capitalism at its worst. There is a venerable and longstanding industry that has all kinds of ancillary jobs, e.g. vets, farmers, etc. If the philosophy was to let it stand on its own and live or die, I'd have no problem with that. But that isn't how it works. A casino operator comes into a market and uses the existing racetrack to get a casino license with all kinds of promises of saving the existing business. But as soon as it has that license, the casino operator does everything possible to eliminate the horse racing.

That's why slot machines are a devil's bargain. The horsemen latch onto them like a life preserver but the casino operator and the state soon begin to wonder why they need a "partner" that isn't pulling his weight. If the horsemen were smart, they would insist on a real ownership interest in the casino.

Take Pompano Park for example. The only reason the casino is allowed to exist is because it offers horse racing. But the casino operator conducts the racing almost behind a curtain while making huge money off slots and the dumb ass horsemen get shit.

Balmoral and Maywood handle far more than Hoosier and Harrah's but they don't have a casino to add money to the purses. So you have cheap horses. Small purses and relatively large handle are a recipe for all kinds of chicanery. And it gives the sport a bad name. Purses must be tied to handle. Otherwise the bettor is not your customer. That's a real problem. Slots are a temporary solution at best. Illinois racing is in its death throes.

If you want free markets, let them be really free. Forget all this licensing bullshit. Let whoever offer whatever gambling he can and allow the market to sort it out.
Author:  newper [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Purses must be tied to handle. Otherwise the bettor is not your customer. That's a real problem. Slots are a temporary solution at best. Illinois racing is in its death throes.

Image
Author:  Rod [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
A few more things on this topic. Horse racing isn't "dead". There are all kinds of gamblers that would bet on horses if the conditions were right. But when the answer to every problem is to raise the rake, well, the whales aren't stupid.

For years these guys- racetrack operators- had a monopoly on the gambling dollar and they abused the bettor with impunity. These were largely family businesses, and like most family businesses when they got into the second and third generations, there just wasn't the same kind of drive to succeed. The kids were handed a silver spoon along with their monopoly. And when that monopoly was gone, instead of trying to fix a broken business model, they begged legislatures for relief, usually in the form of additional gambling.

Another problem is that racetrack owners generally aren't gamblers. I know a lot of them and the only one who is a real gambler that I know is Jeff Gural at the Meadowlands. It's no coincidence that he runs the best shop. And he's being fought at every turn. It's particularly galling to see the horsemen fail to go along with him and his ideas. They'd rather just suck up slots purses until the sport is dead.

Horse racing is a great game. A game where the player can actually win. This isn't a criticism of your grandmother (or you), but slot machines are for idiots and losers. Most of us like playing slots at least once in awhile, but we have to realize there's only one winner in that game. The casino sets your "loose" slot to pay back 96% of what it takes in and it grinds the players into dust. With horse racing we're always battling the rake and on certain gimmicks in certain places it's egregiously high. But ultimately, it's me vs. you with both of us dealing with the takeout. I don't bet unless I get the price I want. (More difficult to do these days in a time of smaller pools and late money hitting them electronically from far flung locations.)

And horse racing is often its own worst enemy. Just read up on rebate shops. http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s ... of-racing/ I'm philosophically opposed to the concept as a horseman. But I also feel stupid paying a higher price as a gambler.
Author:  bigfan [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Why doesnt Arlington have night racing? one night or one weekend night? or even start at 5 on Fridays?
Author:  denisdman [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
Joe that was my point about slots. They are just an excuse to open a casino in a prime location. There s no reason anyone would take slot money winnings over time and dump into horse racing. They'd just do it as long as they have to in order to keep the casino license.
Author:  Ed_from_Lisle [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
bigfan wrote:
Why doesnt Arlington have night racing? one night or one weekend night? or even start at 5 on Fridays?


Great question. Years ago, before you had to pay for content, Rozner hinted at this very topic in his column. I seem to recall they were close to 4 or 5 nights per season. That would be cool.

I wish I had gotten into horse racing at a younger age. I concur with JORR. The sport ain't long for Illinois.

I could read JORR's horse racing thoughts all goddamn day. Great stuff.
Author:  Rod [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maywood Park
bigfan wrote:
Why doesnt Arlington have night racing? one night or one weekend night? or even start at 5 on Fridays?


Because the dates are assigned. Traditionally harness racing has run at night with thoroughbreds in the daytime. In September each track submits dates they want to run and then the Illinois Racing Board has to decide who actually gets what. Of course, it's most often contentious. Governors have gone to prison over this shit. Several years back in Florida, their racing board got so disgusted with the track operators refusing to agree to a schedule they said, "Fuck it. Run free market. Any day and any time you want." That was the death knell for Hialeah Park which got steamrolled by Gulfstream.

denisdman wrote:
Joe that was my point about slots. They are just an excuse to open a casino in a prime location. There's no reason anyone would take slot money winnings over time and dump into horse racing. They'd just do it as long as they have to in order to keep the casino license.


Right, but as I said, none of this is free market. It's all crony capitalism. If I had a casino license, I could bankroll the operation in twenty minutes. There are all kinds of jobs related to racing. No casino operator can come into a market with the promise of destroying those jobs. So the casino guys try to get in through an existing racetrack which immediately makes them partners with the horsemen. They beg the horsemen for their support and then stick a knife in their backs as soon as they can. You'd think the horsemen would learn.

Let me give you an example and this hits close to home for me because it's what I do for a living. Let's say you want to get a business set up but you need help, money, access, whatever. I can get you the things you need by bringing one of my guys to the table. So I put you two guys together and there is an agreement about what I get, my fee. Maybe sometimes it's an interest in your business, a seat on your board. But now, you and the power guy that I introduced you to are getting chummy. The two of you start wondering why I'm making so much on this deal. You quickly forget that the deal wouldn't exist without me. This kind of thing has happened to me. But that's why I usually get paid upfront. :lol:
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/