I'm just trying to figure out how to manage my son. He's a pretty good runner relative to the general population. He's got the right build but definitely not the running "gene" from his parents -- I totally sucked as a kid/teen. I'm faster now at 45. If totally left to his devices, he'd sit around and play video games, so the alternative of me trying to "encourage" his athletic career may not be the worst idea. How do you encourage something without said thing becoming crappy because dad is pushing me?

I guess it's just "play it by ear" like most parenting things. Nothing ever turns out like you expect.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Well Joe Newton was a sadistic freak as coach at York, so that helps.

This.

There are just some running ceilings you just can't crack with hard work unless you have elite talent. The law of diminishing marginal returns and such

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

it's true. You have to have both hardcore endurance and a major finishing kick. Sage had both, I saw him run at state when I was a senior.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

More York talk. When I was a freshman they had a guy named Jim White who won state in CC and a couple of track events. He pretty much flamed out in college, I think. The pattern seemed to be that he killed even the superstars & left them for dead. I have some recollection that they had to run between 50-100 miles/wk in season. Can that possibly be true? I think they had to run 2000 miles/year total. Or maybe 1000 over the summer. Whatever, it seemed crazy. They had huge numbers though. More kids ran CC than played football.

_________________
Soccer 1,2,3
Spanish Honor Society 1,2,3,4
Forensics 1,2,3,4

"Smiles with Nostrils"

"...no Hmong, go find some blacks"

Yeah my daughter was generally about halfway in the pack. We Bernstines are not bred for endurance running. At the meet before last I saw a couple of girls have to be carried off from the heat, though the 6th graders only run 1.5m. They really need to toughen up.

_________________
Soccer 1,2,3
Spanish Honor Society 1,2,3,4
Forensics 1,2,3,4

"Smiles with Nostrils"

"...no Hmong, go find some blacks"

Parent at OPRF said they were doing 70+ miles/week. I don't think that is good for you. I'm ambivalent about this thing.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The York philosophy was to run everyone into the ground and the strong survive. A lot of teams have gotten away from that type of training but some still do. One rich west suburban school had a very good cross team a few years ago but all were hurt by outdoor track due to the mileage they were running. Things like stress fractures in their hips. Old people type injuries.

_________________

OPRF is in an insane conference our best kid who was All-State topped out at 75 a week but was closer to 50 on average.

_________________

Flat course and true 3.1 mi., that is great. Good for him. If you have serious inclines, bottlenecks or general obstacles that is awesome.

Does he like it? If he actually likes it, and the people he is around, it is ok to use DAC's point. You have apply yourself to be good, or great. It is worth explaining that at some point he has to apply himself. The beauty of the sport if he likes it is he can test himself, push himself, and understand what that level of commitment can take to succeed. You cannot push him, but at some point he has to find something where he will push himself. You never know what you can accomplish if you don't make that commitment. Sports is a good way to do that. Games are great and all, but the accomplishment of HIGH SCORE at Defender (showing my age) can only go so far. My old man forced work, but encouraged commitment to something one enjoyed. The calming talk of encouragement from someone I looked up to was nice. Don't think it made me any better athletically, but I did commit, and I did get something out of several athletic experiences because of it. Some good, and some not as good. We had a state champion BBall team my senior year. I was the last cut as a junior. I had committed, and simply wasn't as good. I accepted that because I did give what little gifts I had. Found something else, committed again, and was more successful. .02

Totally depends on pace, terrain length of season etc. 70+ is not horrible for a key portion of pre-season, season, but if the coach is doing that for the last couple weeks leading into state he/she is an idiot.

Just dumb, but understandable if you are trying to cull the herd. Our CC team was begging folks to get involved...kind of the animal house philosophy. you pay the dues (alive and show up) you run. They are on the opposite end of the spectrum, really should probably try the cut a few kids method and not ruin them.

It really is a team sport though. There's a lot to trying to control the pace or control portions of the race, isn't there?

I never ran competitively and I have no clue how to train to set up a peak performance for a meet, but 70 miles a week for a teenage athlete in top condition doesn't seem excessive to me. I averaged about 40 a week for ten years as a fat old guy. Of course, my knees are now shot.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

70 - 80 pre season, and maybe 1 or 2 weeks a couple of weeks before city/state meet is fine. If someone it pushing 100+ for preseason, and that extends every week into the season it is asinine. Build a base first...through mileage (if the idiot coach is pushing, or allowing the kids to push themselves at 85 -95% for long runs...idiot). Focus on 1 long run a week, and the rest variation of speedwork to get that quick pace down.

total fast forward because it hit me. In college, we were to run on our own 3 - 5 miles in morning on our own, then practice, then warm down run in the eve. Crazy shit. I hung 1 year (but was kept on roster I found out later for academic purposes for 4 years...hahahaha). Actually got hit by a car on my bike riding home from practice. Helmet saved my life people...wear it. We were at altitude, and while I was there Ibrahim Hussein came occasionally so he had a few people to talk shit to while he ran. Honestly, funny guy. We ran what was called a steady state. Goal was to go max for ten miles, or as long as you could on a flat, sandy 2 mile course. I had just started and lasted 5 miles and watched him the last 5. The goal was to maintain your best pace mile over mile. He was a yapping machine at like a 4:30/mile click every single mile. Unbelievable.

Edit: this post(s) may just be for my remembrance. It happens as one approaches senility. apologies in advance for length/context.

I may have this wrong, but didn't you run track in college? I may be jumbling shit together because it sounds good so bear with me. You may have been in school at the same time and ran against him.
In 84, Stanley Whitaker finished third in the 800 to qualify for the Olympics. He ran at Kansas in college, 200, 400, relays etc. After the crushing defeat of falling at trials, he came home and coached his high track team for 1 year when starting law school (now is I believe a state judge). Most upbeat person I have ever been around. Made living fun. Had a little yellow VW bug he unfurled himself out of each day for practice. At the end of the season, Coach Whitaker agrees to the kid's challenge, a 300 gut buster, and the kids get a head start. We had 1 guy that ran 49.2 400m. He wanted to see what he could do against a bonafide stud. I think coach gave them 15-20 meter head start. I honestly have never seen anything as amazing as watching coach cruise around a crappy high school track at top speed and just beat these kids. He was not losing, and ohh they wanted to beat him. He floated man. He floated on that track. Effortless. It literally took all he had, and it was a most impressive feat. Greatest thing I ever witnessed live.

3 years later I was running a half marathon. After 6 miles I spot coach and some guy 100 yards ahead, and I bust it to catch up. He and this dude are having a great conversation and on pace to run 1:15. Killed my mojo. I was sucking wind. I finished at 1:21. I bring this up because fast twitch/slow twitch...whatever. Coach Whitaker was an absolute stud. He told stories of running 100M races in Europe and nobody believed him. He was 'Middle Distance'. That man could have done just about anything in his prime. He is/was a God fearing man and sang at a friend's funeral. Hard to steal a show at a funeral, but he came close. The good lord could use a few more coaches like him.

If he likes it, then it's also an easy transition to running track in the spring, so you've got him busy in 2/3 of the HS seasons. It may not mean much if he's active in other things, but socially Track and Field has a pretty diverse mix of kids in it. There will be his dudes from XC, some huge football players throwing shot, some basketball/volleyball guys jumping, some weirdos pole vaulting, some dudes that can do nothing but run fast out sprinting, and some randos just keeping busy. It was also a quick way to a varsity letter back in the day, as the 2 mile tends to be pretty sparsely entered in a lot of track meets, giving some easy point opportunities.

Good stories all. All very foreign subject matter to me.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

My kids have done cross country in middle school, but more just to get some exercise. Son is at York now, but plays baseball. Think it's 28-30 cross country state championships. Any day of the year you drive around town and you'll see the groups of kids running. All the elementary schools in town have running club during lunch breaks where kids run laps around the school instead of having recess.

I've never been much of a runner, so it's all strange to me.

My 5th grade daughter ran CC this year. She's a soccer player and wanted to do it to get in better shape (she did). Her school is very casual about it though with only 1-2 "practices" a week. She runs about a 6:10 mile which usually gets her in the top 10 or 5 depending on the meet. The school that demolishes everyone is Queen of All Saints. They routinely take the top three with close to 5:40 miles (for JV, 5-6 graders). I'm told they run every day of the week except Sunday. They get results now, but it really seems like too much too soon for young kids. I can't see how they keep it up without burning out eventually.

The worst part of the meets for me is that my daughter runs the first race (girls JV) and is done. Then we have to sit through the next three races before the awards ceremonies, where they recognize the top 25 in each division. Brutal.

_________________

6:10 is amazing. Top 5% of runners which would be like top 0.001% of the general population.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I understand growth spurts and all, but 6:10 for a fifth grade boy would be pretty damn amazing

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

For our south suburban catholic league that would be top 5 out of 120. Could be #1 depending on course.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

You'll be happy to know that he's dead. Old Joe just retired like a year ago. Not sure if he was sick or died of boredom.


https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.co ... york-dies/

_________________
Soccer 1,2,3
Spanish Honor Society 1,2,3,4
Forensics 1,2,3,4

"Smiles with Nostrils"

"...no Hmong, go find some blacks"

Sitting here at the U of C fieldhouse watching an indoor track meet, I am sickened. Even this sport has turned into a sport for the well heeled and their multitudes of specialized coaches.

The teams I ran on never were allowed to run or even train here occasionally. Looking at the level of "talent" here (from all over the country) I can see why. We'd have hurt a lot of "feelings".

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Indoor track sounds horrible. One reason against cross country is they want to you do that in the winter. Training 12 months/year as a kid doesn't sound like the best way to raise a happy well adjusted human.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

This is the first time I am not at that meet since 09. That meet usually has a few very good kids entered but it is not overly competitive. It is the first opportunity to run in a meet this year. The key to the Ted Haydon meet is get your kids into events that end early. If not, you are there until 7pm

_________________

Conns,

What high school sport DON'T you cover?!?

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I used to absolutely love indoor meets, because they were so long it gave your teams a lot of time to goof around. And you usually had to run early and late.

And when it was over the parents were starving, which made it an automatic pizza outing afterwards

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Swimming, Golf and Tennis. Everything else I don't cover I have a working knowledge of.

I am involved in various levels of coaching, video, stats or working events in:

Football
Cross Country
Basketball
Wrestling
Track

We actually have a handful of athletes competing there today but none of the ones I coach. Three of them had work today and one had a club volleyball tourney.

_________________