agreed....

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@audioidkid

No, U of Chicago is generally speaking the best; then Northwestern; then Illinois, which is the best "state" or public university.

Thanks for the offer, but I have no traumatic memories of the college application process.

I do, however, have a fair amount of knowledge about the way many universities are thought of by university administrators and academics in a fairly broad array of fields.....

In some subjects i would agree, but I would say the majority, no.

Northwestern vs. Chicago or Michigan vs. Illinois are academic discussions significant mostly to academics and alums who like to compare ratings, endowments, and the like. In the real world outside of college admissions and development, it hardly matters. Most employers do not make a significant distinction in evaluating candidates based on differences between same-tier schools in a particular field of study. If my choice to hire a freshly-minted MBA were between a U of Chicago grad or a Kellogg grad, the school would be of no significance. Similarly, if my choice were between a second-tier Michigan man and an Illini, again the school would not matter. If my choice were a first-tier Kellogg grad or a second-tier Michigan grad, there would be a slight lean to the Cat. However, other factors would be MUCH more important than the academic pedigree.

I would whole heartedly agree with all of that. My degree from the prestigous Northern Illinois University got me a job over many other canidates with "better name" colleges.

Agreed, it's mostly how you come off in the interview.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Let us now get back to the topic at hand quoted above; this school stuff is boring this Valedictorian from the University of Phoenix via Internet!

[quote="Coast2Coast"] same-tier schools . quote]

That phrase is kind of the genesis of this discussion. I thought TM dismissed me out of hand (and probably still does) that Notre Dame is on a same tier. He says it isn't. I say it is. Neither quotes anything compelling and so the discussion has probably reached it's conclusion.

I am interested TM in you thoughts about the status of state schools in relation to the rising cost of a college degree. Are they still considered backups to middle class but highly intelligent students given the incredible disparity in cost (for example UI at 17,000 versus NU at 47,000)? 120,000 over 4 years is a significant expense even for very good wage earners.

Starting with Northwestern, I will say that for low- and middle income students, it is perhaps the best bargain in higher education. Northwestern has long maintained a practice of need-blind admission and couples that approach with a need-based financial aid system. This means that NU considers all admitted applicants "deserving" of the financial aid package that will make the school affordable for them and provides them with the assistance necessary to matriculate. So a student whose annual family income is 35K will likely receive a free ride (loaded with fat "grants", which are de facto scholarships) and graduate with little or no loan debt. On the other hand, an affluent student with a family income of over 200K will have to pick up much more of the tuition cost and may therefore graduate with substantial loan debt. If I were a low- or middle-income parent and had an academically gifted son or daughter, I would make sure that he or she applied to Northwestern. The opportunity that the school provides for students to transcend their economic origins is enormous....Duke's financial aid system is also need-based while schools like Harvard and Stanford have improved their financial aid allocations, at least depending on your definition of middle income (for them, less than 75 or 80K--hardly generous, but not as bad as in the past).

Now this doesn't mean that every middle class kid needs to go to a top-tier school to get a top education. But middle class parents with smart kids should definitely get them to apply to schools like that--there's only an application fee to lose and a lot of class mobility to gain.

[quote="Javier Delgado"]Pre-Law also means he told us something else he flunked; So he's failed as a Lawyer/Producer/Salesman/Host - and even as a Braggart/Liar! - the four-breaking stories thing bit him in the ass big time.[/quote]

cant you guys go back to this?

Dolphin--Take a look at this link: http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf

It is a 2003 Wall Street Journal ranking of undergraduate institutions by placement of their graduates at top medical, law and business schools. Harvard is #1, Chicago is #14, and Notre Dame is #35. If the survey included placement into top graduate programs in the humanities and social sciences, I'm guessing Chicago's ranking would move further up and ND's would drop even lower.....

The interesting thing to note is just how large the gap is between the top 3 Ivies (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and everyone else.

Obviously this survey is hardly definitive proof of ND's second- or third-class status, but it does support my view of how an ND diploma is regarded by academics and university administrators.