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One other thing, this idea that "Lou's been doing it all year" is stupid too. I am willing to bet that Z never got pulled after 85 pitches in the 6th inning of a tie game where he's only given up 1 run in his life (barring injury) and I'm glad a couple callers called him on it.

Lou had a plan and he was trying to stick to it.
He planned on using Zambrano in Game 4, so he wasn't about to tax him. Did everybody forget that Zambrano was going to be on three days rest. Most starting pitchers aren't prepared for that, so saving 20 to 40 pitches isn't a bad idea.
Complain to Lou about not having Z bunt with a man on second and nobody out. Complain about Lou not pinch-hitting for Z in the sixth then pulling him in the seventh.
NO ONE could predict that Marmol would blow up.
The team didn't execute -- plain and simple.
If you want to blast Lou, take him to task for his comments in Friday's press conference. He talked about how much progress they made this year. He sounded like he was giving up there. Take him to task for that. Stop the hind-sighted hammering.

Like Bernsie said, Cub fans shouldn't be satisifed with anything less than a World Series title. What bothered B and B and myself was the way Lou sounded like he was settling for what the team had accomplished this year.

At work with little to do towards the end of the day so I'm doing some stat checking...

July 18th, Zambrano went 80 pitches and was then pulled, but he had a 9-0 lead at that point, so perhaps they wanted to get the bullpen some work.

May 19th 2004 though he threw 87 pitches and was pulled after seven in a 3-3 tie.

But looking at his pitch counts over the last four years, I'd say 90% of the time he is reaching triple digits.

Author:	Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Steve Stone on Zambrano
I don't usually pile on the Stone bashing, I generally am OK with his segments. But his argument that Z should have been pulled because it would not have mattered is the stupidest argument I've ever heard. He saying the Cubs weren't scoring so they would have brought Marmol in later and they would have scored and Z just throws 40 pitches he doesn't have to. He's saying, "we give up", this game is lost so I need to pull Zambrano and it's ridiculous.

Author:	Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:
One other thing, this idea that "Lou's been doing it all year" is stupid too. I am willing to bet that Z never got pulled after 85 pitches in the 6th inning of a tie game where he's only given up 1 run in his life (barring injury) and I'm glad a couple callers called him on it.

Author:	hootmon [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: One other thing, this idea that "Lou's been doing it all year" is stupid too. I am willing to bet that Z never got pulled after 85 pitches in the 6th inning of a tie game where he's only given up 1 run in his life (barring injury) and I'm glad a couple callers called him on it. The only time I ever remember Zambrano being pulled with 85 pitches or less is when he's getting tattooed in the third inning, already down by six runs. I guess I just don't get modern day baseball. The Snakes couldn't wait to get their starter out either, even though he was sailing along. I always was of the idea to win the game today (even if you stretch your starter) rather than take a chance of a pitching change waking up the other team.

Author:	newper [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:
At work with little to do towards the end of the day so I'm doing some stat checking... July 18th, Zambrano went 80 pitches and was then pulled, but he had a 9-0 lead at that point, so perhaps they wanted to get the bullpen some work. May 19th 2004 though he threw 87 pitches and was pulled after seven in a 3-3 tie. But looking at his pitch counts over the last four years, I'd say 90% of the time he is reaching triple digits.

Author:	BD [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: One other thing, this idea that "Lou's been doing it all year" is stupid too. I am willing to bet that Z never got pulled after 85 pitches in the 6th inning of a tie game where he's only given up 1 run in his life (barring injury) and I'm glad a couple callers called him on it. I definitely had an issue with Zambrano being pulled afer 85 pitches in a 1-1 tie, and Marmol has been a great out of the bullpen this season. My first reaction was that Lou should be more concerned with winning Game 1 than worrying about Game 4. I would have tried to get one more inning, at least, out of him. Of course, I didn't predict Marmol would get rocked, but I want to get more out of my ace. As far as Bernstein saying, only one team had to win last night, and it was Arizona - that's stupid. His reasoning is that the Cubs are a better team, and while I think they do, it's hardly a landslide, and now the Cubs have to win 3 out of 4. Boers' argument was pretty stupid as well - he kept trying to argue that callers that wanted Zambrano to stay in must not like Marmol, and this is what Lou does. No he typically doesn't pull him after 85 pitchers, and why can't you like the job Marmol does, and want to keep Zambrano in for another inning ?

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Author:	Brian's Mojito [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Lou had a plan and he was trying to stick to it. He planned on using Zambrano in Game 4, so he wasn't about to tax him. Did everybody forget that Zambrano was going to be on three days rest. Most starting pitchers aren't prepared for that, so saving 20 to 40 pitches isn't a bad idea. Complain to Lou about not having Z bunt with a man on second and nobody out. Complain about Lou not pinch-hitting for Z in the sixth then pulling him in the seventh. NO ONE could predict that Marmol would blow up. The team didn't execute -- plain and simple. If you want to blast Lou, take him to task for his comments in Friday's press conference. He talked about how much progress they made this year. He sounded like he was giving up there. Take him to task for that. Stop the hind-sighted hammering.

Author:	BD [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:
bigguscattus wrote: Lou had a plan and he was trying to stick to it. He planned on using Zambrano in Game 4, so he wasn't about to tax him. Did everybody forget that Zambrano was going to be on three days rest. Most starting pitchers aren't prepared for that, so saving 20 to 40 pitches isn't a bad idea. Complain to Lou about not having Z bunt with a man on second and nobody out. Complain about Lou not pinch-hitting for Z in the sixth then pulling him in the seventh. NO ONE could predict that Marmol would blow up. The team didn't execute -- plain and simple. If you want to blast Lou, take him to task for his comments in Friday's press conference. He talked about how much progress they made this year. He sounded like he was giving up there. Take him to task for that. Stop the hind-sighted hammering. Are you saying that Lou didn't do his best job of managing or his players didn't play as hard as they could because they had already made enough progress this season ? Nobody predicted Marmol would blow up, and Lou himself said that he was planning on using Zambrano for over 100 pitches. If you questioned this move at the time, it is legitimate, but as it turned out, it didn't really matter. The Cubs didn't hit in this series, and their starting pitching wasn't good. Lou's not at fault.

Author:	Brian's Mojito [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Like Bernsie said, Cub fans shouldn't be satisifed with anything less than a World Series title. What bothered B and B and myself was the way Lou sounded like he was settling for what the team had accomplished this year.

Author:	BD [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:
bigguscattus wrote: Like Bernsie said, Cub fans shouldn't be satisifed with anything less than a World Series title. What bothered B and B and myself was the way Lou sounded like he was settling for what the team had accomplished this year. I understand why you would feel that way about Lou's comments, but I don't think it had anything to do with DeRosa grounding into a DP with the bases loaded. They just didn't execute.

Author:	Mopery [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: At work with little to do towards the end of the day so I'm doing some stat checking... July 18th, Zambrano went 80 pitches and was then pulled, but he had a 9-0 lead at that point, so perhaps they wanted to get the bullpen some work. May 19th 2004 though he threw 87 pitches and was pulled after seven in a 3-3 tie. But looking at his pitch counts over the last four years, I'd say 90% of the time he is reaching triple digits. good work, newper.

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