I belive Murph is more credible as a source
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| Murph's logic https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=156&t=17207 |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Murph's logic |
Murph's position Wednesday was that the White Sox are just bluffing with their free-agent talks. He cited Torii Hunter as one case to prove his point. Then he tried to say the same thing about Fukodome. He referred to them as johnny-come-latelys in that case, comparing them to a guy who waits to the day of the dance to ask someone out. Murph, the Sox were seriously interested in Hunter, but the Angels outbid and possibly overpaid for his services ($19 million a year?). As for Fukodome, it's been rumored for more than the last few days that the White Sox were also interested. Listen to your own station! He talks about being concerned about Northside-Southside cheap shots, and then he pulls this from his Cubbie tumbler. This is why he tends to irk me on occassion. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:02 pm ] |
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Somebody at the station should tell Murph that the Sox offered more for Fukodome. He wanted to play for the Cubs. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:22 pm ] |
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Beardown wrote: Somebody at the station should tell Murph that the Sox offered more for Fukodome. He wanted to play for the Cubs.
Do we know what the Sox offered him ? As for Murphy, how can anyone say that they weren't seriously after Hunter ? I think they liked Fukadome, but he was going to the Cubs, and I sensed they weren't really that interested in Rowand. |
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| Author: | Score is doomed [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 pm ] |
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Beardown wrote: Somebody at the station should tell Murph that the Sox offered more for Fukodome. He wanted to play for the Cubs.
That isn't true, just more bullshit from the worst sportswriter in Chicago, Joe Cowley. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:04 pm ] |
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I belive Murph is more credible as a source
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| Author: | RodeoVann [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:21 pm ] |
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While I cannot stand Murph he isnt wrong here. They want Hunter, dont get him, they want M. Cabera, dont get him, they want Fukudome, dont get him, Rowand would been a great PR move, but they dont get him either. To me, Kenny and Jerry are pulling something here, because if they had 15 mill to give Hunter, they couldnt offer Rowand 12mil and solve their CF problem? It doesnt make sense, even more so, when they say they will be players for free agents and all star players, then the GM says you cant spend a dollar when you have 50 cents. To me, it seems someone is not telling the truth. The one move they do make, trading Garland who was scheduled to make 12 mill this year, they trade him for a SS who makes 9 mill a year, so they save 3 mill. So once Hunter doesnt sign, they should have 18 mill to spend, have they? No, so Murph in my opinion is correct. I am not saying spend it to just spend it, but to do nothing is just stupid. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:22 pm ] |
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Rodeo, I'm confused. Doing nothing?????? They made offers, and other teams were willing to go higher. Murph's point is that the White Sox really didn't want to make these moves in the first place. They were outbid, but doesn't mean that the Sox weren't trying to get something done. It just sounds like another Cubbie Kool-Aid comment from the Bleacher Bum with the bugle. Murph's right, the Sox should have just opened up their vault. It worked for the Cubs in 2007.
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| Author: | BD [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:45 pm ] |
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The White Sox wanted Hunter, but they weren't willing to go above and beyond to make sure they got him, and overpaying, sometimes significantly, is sometimes necessary when it comes to landing an upper tier free agent player. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:47 pm ] |
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Hunter is an excellent defensive outfielder, but his offensive numbers aren't eye-popping. $19 million a year??????? That's Top-10 player money -- isn't it? Is he one of the Top 10 players in the league? If you would've signed Hunter, does that put you in a position to be a serious contender for the AL Pennant? BTW, what does this have to do with Murph's assumption? You know, the point of this thread. |
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| Author: | RodeoVann [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:03 pm ] |
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Anyone can make a offer and believe it or not, sometimes you have to overpay to fill a hole. To me, Kenny and Jerry are just doing alot of lip service to their fans, they had no intention of signing any big $$ names, again just my opinion. My main point is that if Hunter got a crazy offer from the Angels, fine, but wouldnt Rowand or Jones been just as good and even less then what Hunter was looking for. If they really wanted to spend that 15 million on a solid CF'er, those two would have filled the hole. The Cubs did spend, won their weak division, but yes, you are correct, they didnt reach their goal, then again, at least they didnt lose 90 games. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:30 pm ] |
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Jones (18.1 million) and Rowand (12) are a little pricey for me. Jones hit .222 last year in 154 games. It's hard to say that Rowand is a proven commodity. His numbers with the White Sox were decent. He followed up his .310 campaign in 2004 by hitting 40 points lower the next season. Sure, he was great at times last year, but he ended up hitting just a little over .300 when the season was finished. I think the White Sox would've been overpaying in each of those situations. Are Cubs fans still OK with spending 10 million a year on Lilly -- nice postseason performance. The guy lets you down in the most-important game of the season. Soriano was no great shakes either. The team still doesn't have a leadoff hitter or a center fielder. I just have a problem with Cub fans -- like Murphy -- making statements that they can't back up with any proof, especially when they're about the White Sox. Is everything fine and rosy on the North Side? When's the last time the Cubs won the World Series. Don't tell me about all of the losses that the Sox had last year when they won the title in 2005. Of course, I'm not happy about what has transpired over the last 1 1/2 seasons. That's because it's been a big dropoff from the title year of 2005. At least our team has a World Series title of recent memory. Win a World Series and get back with me then. Until then, clam up and worry about your own mess on the North Side. |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:00 pm ] |
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You can complain about how everybody's overpaid, but if you don't sign anybody yourself and suck, it doesn't really matter. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:02 pm ] |
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Someone have a crystal ball? |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:32 pm ] |
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If the Sox sign quality players at a good price that's great, I don't know who is left though. It reminds me of last winter when they traded Garcia and McCarthy, and while most people didn't like the trades, everybody kept saying it was early in the off-season so let's wait and see what KW does with the new chips. Well he didn't do anything and the Sox stunk. Here we are again early in the off-season and now that KW didn't get any of the decent or big names people are again saying we should wait and see what else he does. Well if it's like last year he won't do anything and the Sox will stink. Besides, what's so wrong with overpaying now and then? You can do that sometimes if you don't already have a bunch of guys that are overpaid. Maybe if he didn't give Contreras an extension that has him making 10 million in 08 and 09 he could have overpaid for somebody good instead. |
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| Author: | Brian's Mojito [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:20 pm ] |
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So he overpaid for Contreras? I thought you said it was OK to overpay for some players. But it wasn't OK to "overpay" for Contreras. Like Murph says, "Pick a lane". |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:33 pm ] |
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bigguscattus wrote: So he overpaid for Contreras?
I thought you said it was OK to overpay for some players. But it wasn't OK to "overpay" for Contreras. Like Murph says, "Pick a lane". I thought it seems pretty obvious overpaying for guys that suck is bad and overpaying for guys that are good is ok sometimes, but I guess you were too excited to bust out your Murph quote to think about it. Overpaying wasn't my point anyway, only that if you never sign anybody but Linebrink you'll never have to worry about overpaying. |
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| Author: | RodeoVann [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:13 pm ] |
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Quote: I just have a problem with Cub fans -- like Murphy -- making statements that they can't back up with any proof, especially when they're about the White Sox. Is everything fine and rosy on the North Side? When's the last time the Cubs won the World Series. Don't tell me about all of the losses that the Sox had last year when they won the title in 2005.
Of course, I'm not happy about what has transpired over the last 1 1/2 seasons. That's because it's been a big dropoff from the title year of 2005. At least our team has a World Series title of recent memory. Win a World Series and get back with me then. Until then, clam up and worry about your own mess on the North Side. What does Kenny running his mouth and coming up empty have to do with the Cubs? If you dont think the Sox are trying to pull a fast one, fine, I am not going to try and convince you, but I hate to tell you this, but Rowand and Jones would have been signing then a aging, often hurt Hunter in my opinion. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:27 am ] |
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Biggus is right. 2-3 weeks ago I heard Murph call the Sox' positioning smart, given that the 'wisdom' was that no team would offer Rowand the five years @13-15MM he was looking for. His(Murph's) words were specifically that Rowand would be returning to the Sox because their offer would be the best for him 
To turn around and then contradict his own words on FireandPassionMan and then proffer the idiotic notion that you have to overpay in free agency is moronic. (Does Murph even remember his own remarks about the 'overpaid bum' Soriano in April, May, September and October of THIS year) Of course that Murph does this reminds me of the head over heels joy he showed back in '92-93 over the signing of Danny Jackson, Jose Guzman and assorted other overpaid scrubs. (or the even signing of last year's bumper crop) I don't get the eternal optimism of some Cub fans(Murph) tied with Sox bashing though. I stopped trying years ago. The short memories for he and his band of merry lemmings are confusing though. Sammy was the Man until mid '04, bringing back Maddux was just what the '04 Cubs needed, Rod Beck was a gamer(once), Alou was a baseball lifer who knew the game, Lou Pinella was past his prime, Ed Lynch was a GM trying to come into his own in '98-99 (and out of McPhail's shadow), Lilly was an AL East pitcher who would be at his best in the big/playoff games - all Murph positions  at one convenient(rose glasses) time or another.
A pipsqueak Cub fan like Murph though is amusing both for his seemingly bipolar and schizophrenic nature when it comes to the Sox though. It made his show an absolute listen in October/November '05 a must listen though--he sounded suicidal. His team is in first, or potentially challenging from November of one year through early April of the next every year and boy do the memories get short and does common sense fly out of the window with him for the Sox. Hell, this year Fukudome is the next incarnation of Ichiro and Hideki rolled into one, but one no one has ever seen perform in the majors over 162 (Dice K anyone?)---yet the Sox HAD TO overpay for Hunter or Rowand, or get fleeced for M. Cabrera who may yet eat his way out of the league (but should play LF for the Sox?) To guys like Murph I just ask this: Remember Karl 'Tuffy' Rhodes???  
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| Author: | RodeoVann [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:30 am ] |
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Quote: To guys like Murph I just ask this: Remember Karl 'Tuffy' Rhodes???
Scott Ruffcorn....
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:20 am ] |
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RodeoVann wrote: Quote: To guys like Murph I just ask this: Remember Karl 'Tuffy' Rhodes??? Scott Ruffcorn.... "he's 6'4" with a big, strong chest" ...Murph shortly after the selection of Univ. of Texas phenom Brooks Kieschnick Sorry, but I couldn't help passing on this additional Murph gem. (That I remember these-and more does however tab me as more than an occasional Murph listener  )
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