I think this is an interesting question. If you're bad at golf, you know it and say it. If you can't sing, you know it and say it. If you can't get white women, you know it and say it.

But I don't think this rule applies with radio people. I don't think they know they suck.

They say they've been wronged. They say it's politics. They say it's about friendships and who you know as to why some get a chance and some don't. I think the bad ones really believe they're great. I think it's simply delusions of grandeur.

What do you guys think? Do they know?

Hood, Drinky and all of you other backups, feel free to comment.

Does Beardown know that he sucks?

When a normal poster posts crazy opinions and tries to pass them off as facts, he knows he sucks.

When a normal poster tries to make racial ties to nothingness/simple banter, he knows he sucks.

When a normal poster makes countless threads where he ends up being the main commenter, he knows he sucks.

When a normal poster has to ask the question if radio people know that they suck, he knows he sucks.

Why doesn't Beardown know that he sucks?

YOU SUCK BEARDOWN. YOU SUCK BIG FLOPPY PENIS.

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The world's gene pool could use a little more chlorine.

Drinky Vibe

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-"God is great. Beer is good. And People are crazy!"

No. It's a question for all of them. But I do often hear drinky say "this (media guy sucks), that (media guy) sucks, Mike Murphy sucks and Les Grobstein sucks." I then find myself thinking, wait a minute...YOU SUCK!!!!

Look, I know they're not gonna go to their bosses and say, "Hey, I suck, don't give me any more shots." I'm just wondering if they at least admit it to themselves. I don't think so.

Harry Tienowitz get no objective feedback about how badly he sucks. He has been on a daytime radio show with a strong company for close to 15 years. He has been in radio for at least another 10. He is easily the worst sports talker in this city.

He is definitely an example of one who does not know he sucks.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Are you telling me that Harry has never heard from a listener how bad he is? I find that hard to believe considering he is far and away the worst person on radio in this city and perhaps in this country.

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If humans had this ability no one would get out of bed in the morning.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I think radio personality ranks right below "crack whore" on the list of jobs your parents would be most embarrassed by. So, I think it goes without saying that all Radio people suck. The real question is: who sucks harder?

I don't know about "easily". There is quite a group photo for this one.

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Cuz you hear some of these Score backups, content not withstanding, some just aren't technically sound at this profession. They must be aware of it, right? Or do they think they're gift of gab and personality makes up for their technical flaws? Well, I'm here to tell a lot of them that it doesn't. Most of them aren't very bright or interesting.

Like Bernstein and Mac for example: Forget if you like them or not, they are solid at knowing how to actually do radio: They're clear speakers. Something that I think is important. Cuz if you are listening to somebody with a slurred or a choppy speaking ability (Hood and Drinky), with limited vocabulary, I'm automatically turned off. I think you're an idiot. Bernstein and Mac are also pretty solid at interviews (I think Bernstein is the best of all of Chicao's sports talkers). You ever hear Hood do an interview? Yeesh. It's bad. Bernstein and Mac are also good with teases and segways. Also, if you aspire to be a broadcaster, you should try to lose the nasally voice. It is possible. You can train yourself to not talk through your nose and have a deeper voice. A lot of the backups at the Score have this problem.

So, it's not always "The Boss is keeping me down", like some would have you believe. Maybe you're just not good at radio. Maybe it's actually you're fault for not trying to improve. I also think somebody at the Score should tell these kids just what I said. I don't think Mitch or Zim give them this advice.

Every Media or Entertainment person has heard or read something about how bad they suck.

It does effect them, they turn inwards and shit on everyone else , to a degree, it is their defense mechanism.

I think Mac and Jurko are 2 great exceptions to the rule, but most of the guys/girls I have ever met are about as insincere as possible. Murph for example, whom I like on the radio, gave me some bullshit line that he must use everytime he meets a listener, only because I hear him say it about 10 times after he said it to me at a cubs game, he was sitting right by me.

Others I have met and the weirdness oozes out. Brandmeier, Sudberry, Meier, etc/ All might be different now as they have been knocked down from the perches they once held.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

True. Drink and Goff are perfect examples of this. J Hood as well from what you've described about his Score days. Same with Larry. But he only shits on people after they are no longer around.

Harry is an example of somebody getting in the door cuz of connections, politics or both. I think I read here that Daddy set him up for life at ESPN 1000.

So I'm sure some of Chicago's fringe radio guys think, "Hey, Harry sucks, so I don't need to have talent to make it either." But that's the wrong way to look at it.

you know, this is like the chicken and the egg.... or something. nowadays in a world supersaturated with "social media" (i'll take redundant terms for $500, alex) the proverbial "playing field" has been leveled: the great theoretical democracy of communication is upon us! in theory, anyone with decent web hosting can put up an article that anyone in the world can read as much as they want, whereas ~50 years ago or whatever you were beholden to the newspaper/publishing industry if you wanted your work/s to be available to ANYONE, let alone the theoretical possibility of EVERYONE.

see, now anyone who hangs out with a few friends and records a conversation can record it and save it as a .mp3 and call it a "podcast" (great job of marketing the term by apple) and anyone who can hack together a song can toss it up for anyone to download, and of course, any schlub with a video or web cam, or hell nowadays a decent computerphone (i loathe the term smartphone) can record videos and toss them up on, again theoretically, one of the ~5 greatest inventions in the history of human discourse, youtube. publishing rights for the masses have been "liberated", of course, if you don't piss off your corporate masters who give you the au gratis hosting in exchange for likely owning all of the commercial rights to your media... so in a large/r sense, the playing field has been leveled.

HOWEVER, this has created what i like to call "the omnipresent sea of mediocrity" --- nowadays since EVERYONE can take their thoughts/media and publish them ad infinitum / au gratis, the result has been that there's SO MUCH mediocre-at-best drivel meandering through the giant tubes that comprise the internet that the ability to stand out has been made a much much tougher trick. EXAMPLE: it used to be in the late 90s / early 00s if you were cranking out computer music and able to put it up on the web for anyone and/or everyone to download, you stood out by virtue of the fact that you were doing something that most people couldn't/wouldn't do. now since media hosting is subsidized and standardized and popularized, you're just one of millions and millions who are doing the same thing. even if you're good at what you do, it's hard to call attention to yourself when you're just one face in a giant crowd of people all screaming for attention.

this is where everything goes full circle and gets back to "traditional" media via tv/radio/corporate-internets. someone like harry teinowitz, love him or hate him, is successful by default merely because his media goes out over the ESPN branded airwaves/internets/tubes. there comes a point where after 15+ years or whatever it's been that you have to concede that either he doesn't suck, or at least if he does suck he's clever enough to convince the media gatekeepers that he doesn't suck because i'll be damned if the guy isn't a survivor like destiny's children </ja rule> and still getting his stuff out there via the ESPN brand.

so after all this pointless blathering that said absolutely nothing, we're back to my original thesis about the chicken and the egg.... kinda, with harry teinowitz. sure, 95% of us all believe in our heart of hearts that the guy sucks.... but clearly SOMEBODY's gotta like him because he's there.... and that's all it takes nowadays.... it's kind of ironic that after "liberating" the masses via "social media" and "giving everyone a voice" that the circle completes itself when we're at the point where hacks like harry are doubly validated by the fact that now that everyone can theoretically compete with him in terms of having a platform to get their voices/talents out there and heard, he's still subsidized and sponsored and ultimately propagated by a giant media conglomerate that essentially gives him a stamp of tacit/approval that essentially brands his output as more important/official/consequently-worthwhile than ours.

seriously, ask around the industry.... we're just bitter jealous losers on a messageboard being "haters" because we all think we're better than harry.... yet he's the one who doesn't have to go wake up and work in a cubicle or do any sort of manual labor because his CONSIDERABLE COMEDIC TALENTS(tm) got him in good with the media gatekeeper brass to the point where he can be drunk and rolling one up while skating down 90/94 and invoking the infallible name of the mayor of skokie when pulled over and he won't even have his job threatened, whereas you and me? we'd be fired and/or jailed immediately for pulling that kind of shit..... and that's cuz harry is in the club... he was chosen by the powers that be, and since his unique blend of awesomeness can be heard on the ESPN brand every day, well, he wins..... and in many ways that MATTER, namely the whole "he gets paid to suck" thing..... there comes a point where you have to say that he doesn't suck because he's getting way more out of the deal than we all do.

CLIFF'S NOTES FOR ANYONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO READ ALL THAT CRAP: when you're paid to suck and in essence being a professional in the time-honored craft of sucktitude, then i think it's quite fair to argue that you don't suck. the point is that what you and i think are irrelevant because anyone tapped by the media gatekeepers to be allowed access to the good ol boys networks to put out their product is going to trump the rest of us by default, ERGO, they don't suck.... we suck for not being them, or in this case, not having their fadda! =D

good night, and good luck!

# sirtalkstoomuch

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yeah, definitely..... and now since he's been there for so long, it's kind of like..... well i don't know the latin for "i exist, therefore i exist" but that's basically what it is. nowadays in this age of omnipresent "social media" with billions of voices out there prattling on about the banalities of their day-to-day-lives/thoughts/etc, anyone who is on television/radio/etc via one of the giant media corporations is by default successful, and that's all that matters nowadays... that default.

look at television over the last ~15 years.... so-called "reality" television has been HUGE for the industry because it's cheap to produce and it didn't alienate away 90% of the viewing audience in a quick and timely fashion (which in and of itself is a euphemism for "it gets ratings") therefore it's become the de facto standard in television programming.... not because it's any good, but because it's way cheaper to produce than most other forms of television and enough people are still watching it that ad rates didn't plummet and therefore the whole enterprise got that much more profitable.

this has led to standards across the board of media getting markedly lower, which means that nowadays, hey, all you have to do is be on tv/radio for long enough and eventually you're an institution..... you don't even have to be any good at it, or you can just get hooked up by fadda, whatever.... just last for ~5-10 years and have a few token fans, and in this age of post-/reality television that's enough to ensure that you've got a job for life.

professional sucktitude means that you don't suck.... it means that you're chosen.

----

the real sad part about this age of "reality" television is that, example, i used to love watching the history channel when i had a few weeks of staycation in between jobs. they'd show all these programs about, you know, HISTORY and even tho it's saccharine television it still hit the sweet spot.... welp, once history got their "ratings" with ice road truckers and realized it was cheaper to follow around some fringey dumbasses with scripted faux-drama, now all of a sudden the whole fucking history channel is ICE ROAD TRUCKERS, SWAMP MEN, AMERICAN GARBAGE PICKERS, PAWN SHOP OWNERS/STARS, etc etc..... and they'll occasionally spend a few bucks to do the ayn rand thing and make series about "THE PEOPLE WHO BUILT AMERICA" cuz you know, the carnegies were personally out there building the nation's infastructure..... it was their bold vision, not the actual people who did the building. duh.

but yeah, now you have to go to channel 276 aka H2 to get anything resembling the old history channel.... and even that is innodated with crap like MONSTERQUEST, ANCIENT ALIENS, UFO FILES, and the worst of the lot.... BRAD MELTZER'S DECODED. yeargh..... can't we get back to the old status quo of old educational film quality stuff made about nazis and the occult?

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They probably think they have been given a fair chance because the guy in front of them (who sucks) in entrenched in a spot.

I agree with you. If Harry hears people saying he sucks, he can rely on the fact that someone is paying him, therefore, he doesn't suck.

Still, there are some particulars of Harry's situation that have allowed him to continue to exist in broadcasting. Harry was pretty much sweeping floors at AM1000 before McNeil. He had been given the umpteenth opportunity to create a show, it had failed but he was still under contract. Mitch decided it was better to have him work for his pay than not and so forced him on Mac and Jurko. Mac immediately hated him even telling Harry that his opinions had no credibility in the industry live on the radio. However, Mac had big enough coattails to carry his fat ass through a decade on the air. Eventually, it actually became a good part of the show to use Harry as a punching bag.

As Mac left, they needed to fill time with something. This resulted in CJH. No one listens but ESPN does not care. All they need is someone to hold down the slot until the national shows begin.

So Harry sits there, unliked, unrespected but undeterred.

He also failed as a comedian.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I have asked many about Harry and not one has claimed there is anything to Daddy pulling the strings.

Got to remember, 90% of that job is showing up and making money. When I say that, I mean being available every night for Jack Daniels to sponsor you to go out drinking at a bar and promote the product. Thats a big part of it.

While everyone would say thats sounds easy, most are not willing to do it almost every night they are asked. Harry was for a long time!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I don't think fatha pulled strings to get Harry a job. There are a few bust out comics working radio in this city (remember Harry's equally horrible partner Spike, Bill Leff, etc.). I do think fatha's money made it possible for Harry to work for next to nothing for a long time until he finally struck gold with Mc Neil.

I remember the first time I heard Harry was Mc Neil bringing him in for a sit in as a comic who was making the rounds back in the day. He sucked from the moment I heard him.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I think somebody here once said something about a connection between Harry's Dad and Jerry Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf, of course, had his White Sox on ESPN 1000 for a while. So Reinsdorf, as a favor to Mr. Teinowitz, got Harry in the door. The PD at ESPN wants to do a favor for Reinsdorf for obvious reasons. I don't know if it's true. It sounds plausible. Plus Reinsdorf still has his Bulls at ESPN 1000. So maybe Harry stays as long as Reinsdorf has some investment in the radio station.

I do remember Jurko and Mac busting Harry's balls about Reinsdorf attending Harry's wedding. That his daddy's relationship with Jerry was why Harry would always defend the chairman when Jurko and Mac would take shots at the Chairman.

Any truth to any of this, Big Fan?

You can get some good coin showing up for bar shows.

That combined with free booze for an alcoholic and it's all looking pretty good.

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Take Connor vs. Drinky. I can tell why Connor has risen quickly at the Score. You can tell he's had some broadcasting training. You can tell he's educated. He takes his job seriously and wants to do it right.

If somebody were listening to drinky and Connor for the first time, they would think that Connor was the 15 year vet and drinky a 19 year old punk intern. I'm serious.

My point is that Connor has advanced cuz...wait for it... he's proven to be a good reporter/broadcaster. Or at least competent. What do you know? Who would have thought? Doing the job well is how you make it. He did it without crying, bitching or trying to bring down everybody around him. He did it without a "Fuck you" attitude. What a novel approach.

Like I said in another thread, drinky can learn from that Connor kid.

Matty used to do his own show once in a while. He was a pro. Much better than Connor.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

No. I remember when he first hit the scene at the Score. He became a little less hostile later on, when he realized it wasn't gonna work, but it was basically "FUCK YOU, CHICAGO. WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO." He was given a shot cuz of his assosiation with Bernstein. Drinky's idea was to be like his boss. He was never at the talent level of Bernstein so he could never pull off the "Fuck You" style. Not smart enough. Crude, rude and lewd works for Bernstein cuz he has some smarts. It can't work for Drinky cuz he doesn't.

I'm not saying Connor is great. But his style is what bosses want. Rare to pull off Bernstein's shtick. Where do you see Bernstein types on the radio in this city? Look at what ESPN 1000 hires. Drinky was over his skis in his attempt to copy Bernstein. That was his mistake.

Sinicalypse, I think you hit the nail right on the head regarding broadcasting and, specifically, what reality television has done to the industry. I have thought the same things you wrote about and I couldn't agree with you more. Due to the "popularity" of "reality" television, broadcasters have found inexpensive programming that has reaped huge profits. The dumbing effect of this has made celebrities out of people who draw tatoos, raise ducks, exterminate insects, and perform in beauty pageants at very young ages. I'm amazed at what passes for entertainment these days, yet I'm not surprised based on the decision makers and their thoughts on programming. You couldn't be more right when you said that reality shows have become the "de facto standard in television programming...not because it's any good, but because it's way cheaper to produce than most other forms of television." It's a matter of following the money. Cheaper doesn't mean quality...it means ad dollars.

As a society, we have not demanded better from programming executives but I think much of that is due to the excessive amounts of channels that exist. Choice is there, but everyone seems to have a "follow the leader" mentality when it comes to one thing that seems to catch on. In other words, one type of show becomes a hit and everyone tries to imitate it on their network.

I think you are correct when you stated that longevity in the industry doesn't necessarily mean you've done good work. There are a number of people who have been in the broadcasting industry who, despite repeated failures, continue to remain employed or gain employment because of who they know and not that they are good at their job. There are many in this field who are good people, but they aren't necessarily good at what they do.

I heard one TV analyst say that move to reality TV by the major TV networks started after the entire cast of Friends demanded and eventually got 1 million per episode. It was at that point TV execs went to more cheaper programming like Reality TV and Game shows. Like you said, CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX keep more of the revenue this way. They knew once the Friends cast won that fight, other actors would demand the same.

The premium channels have taken on a lot of the drama series and sitcoms. Of course, you have to pay for that programming.

This is wrong. drinky started off teamed up with Goff and they were a fun but highly unpolished show.

Connor does do a nice job as a reporter. He has absolutely no identifiable characteristic as a host. He is as bland as his name.

You can have your Connor McNights. Give me a host to whom I want to listen.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Not saying I like Connor as a host. I don't. Just saying that he knows how to go about it as an up and comer. Even Bernstein wasn't the monster we know today when he was starting out as a reporter/host. He knew he had to prove broadcasting competence to his bosses. Now he has status, tenure and power. His bosses fear him and all others at the Score try to be him.

Honestly, when I listen to the Connor and Joe O show, I can't tell which one is which. Like gd said, very bland but at least they're smooth. Not like Jesse, who is still so unpolished after all these years.