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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:02 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Not saying Maddux has to be in your starting 5, but I would bet anything he would have been in Terry's before he got Bernswashed
One area where Terry doesn't follow Bernstein's lead is on player evaluation - particularly Baseball. Boers bases his opinions on how he remembers or perceived an athlete while Bernstein falls back on (what he believes to be) relevant stats.

But he seems to have veered off that with this opinion, dont you think? No.

Maddux seems like a guy Terry would love. He does. He stated Maddux was an all-time great and definite HOF. Not including him in his top 5 is typical Boers. Remember how he feels about Joe Montana and Larry Bird.
I could be wrong. You are. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Later in the show, in typical fashion, Bernstein was berating a caller who had the nerve to suggest Maddux was one of the best RHP of all time. Bernstein, always eager to put down the white athlete, was skeptical. The caller made the mistake of using wins as his first argument, to which DB reflexively launched into his "wins mean nothing, we've moved on from stats like ERA to more advanced metrics", etc.). So then DB suggests looking at WAR. Lo and behold, Greg Maddux was 4th all-time.

That clearly surprised Dan, who then said lifetime WAR was basically a compiler stat, and that pitchers like Pedro had much better "peak WAR" and he proceeded to read off some of Pedro's admittedly impressive seasonal WARs. So then he says he is going to list the top pitchers by 7-year peak WAR. Maddux is 10th (still elite), and I was waiting for Pedro's name...he was like 25th. :lol:



This is a great example of the problem with statistics and people that constantly spout them. danny was obviously shopping for the stat that supported the conclusion he had already drawn. He loves WAR until it fails to support the argument he is attempting to make.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
He loves WAR until it fails to support the argument he is attempting to make.


Not only is this something that advanced-metric acolytes fall victim to far too often, it also slots right in with what I've said before, which is "Dan is what he says he is till he isn't, at which point he never was."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Later in the show, in typical fashion, Bernstein was berating a caller who had the nerve to suggest Maddux was one of the best RHP of all time. Bernstein, always eager to put down the white athlete, was skeptical. The caller made the mistake of using wins as his first argument, to which DB reflexively launched into his "wins mean nothing, we've moved on from stats like ERA to more advanced metrics", etc.). So then DB suggests looking at WAR. Lo and behold, Greg Maddux was 4th all-time.

That clearly surprised Dan, who then said lifetime WAR was basically a compiler stat, and that pitchers like Pedro had much better "peak WAR" and he proceeded to read off some of Pedro's admittedly impressive seasonal WARs. So then he says he is going to list the top pitchers by 7-year peak WAR. Maddux is 10th (still elite), and I was waiting for Pedro's name...he was like 25th. :lol:



This is a great example of the problem with statistics and people that constantly spout them. danny was obviously shopping for the stat that supported the conclusion he had already drawn. He loves WAR until it fails to support the argument he is attempting to make.


Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:27 pm 
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By the time newspapers began assigning specialists to focus on PED reporting, they had also grown more committed to the job of peeling back the curtain. By 2003, it was no longer a curiosity for a baseball writer to ask a player if he was using PEDs. Richard Justice, who had become a columnist at the Houston Chronicle, said he asked the Astros' Jeff Bagwell two or three times. "He would deny it," Justice said. "I'd say, 'HGH?' 'No.' 'Steroids?' 'No.'

"Then I would say, 'Amphetamines?' He would say, 'Uh, no comment.'"

But baseball writers were still running into the same stonewalling. "After I asked Bagwell two or three times, what else can you do?" Justice said. "Even when I see him now and he's 110 pounds."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/102 ... teroid-era

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