Tall Midget wrote:
I found it odd how they reveled in alluding to Johnny Bach's evidently prodigious number of sexual exploits. What was the point in bringing this up?
I thought it was the show's typical low-rent, failed iconoclasm.
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
redskingreg wrote:
Using the 'Skins as an example is a poor analogy. Someone had to win that division. You're relying on a lot if you aren't better than the Packers and Vikings.
Good point. I guess it's safe to assume most of us agree that making the playoffs at least as a division champ doesn't necessarily mean you're "better" than other teams who haven't made it. As for the Bears, I don't see how Minnesota is all of a sudden a team to reckon with for the foreseeable future.
The Bears are right there with them as I see it. We'll see how the packers reload during the off season, but they don't seem as invincible as they once did only a few years ago.
How so? The Vikings were considerably better this year, and have a much younger core than the Bears do.
Nothing really concrete to say here - just an impression. As for "considerably better," not too sure about that. Both teams were average offensively - they averaged around the same number of points scored. Plus AP is on the decline and/or will leave soon, so the offense in Minn will take a hit. I'll give you Minn being considerably better on defense; they gave up just under a TD less than the Bears gave up, but again I think the Bears are not too far away from reentering the discussion as a top 10-15 defense. They already jumped from worst in the league to just about average in Fox Year 1, so things are looking up on that end to me. I just don't think the gap between the two teams is as large as you might have suggested.
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Not insulting him. He's an all time fave of mine too. I don't agree with you on the highly limited thing. In most cases what gets you paid is being able to score. Wallace, Chandler, Noah, etc are the exceptions. All are highly limited in that context - they can't score, they can only do two things (defense plus rebounds) and they do it well. In general yes I'd pay a guy who is like that, but if I can get someone slightly more versatile with lesser but still comparable numbers at rebounding or whatever, then yes I'd trade that kind of a guy. Just having to account for someone who can score while on D makes opposing offenses look much better. Despite Noah's excellence his limitations on offense exacerbated the Bulls' scoring issues during the Thibs era.
If you're the best defensive player in the league, or one of them, then it's ok that you're not a great scorer. Same applies vice versa with great scorers who cant defend. I don't think it's accurate to suggest Noah was only good at two things either. He's one of the best passing Centers of all time also. The only thing he couldn't do very well is score, and he was an acceptable scorer too. Not like Ben Wallace-esque. I don't get your last sentence either. That's not on Noah. Scoring the ball was never his strong suit at any level of play. Along with Thibs, he's the main reason those teams were even as moderately successful as they were. It seems unfair to pin the offensive woes of those teams on him as well.
I don't think there's much distance between us. Just want to clarify a couple of things: I don't mean to pin the offensive woes on him, but I want to suggest that the offensively challenged Bulls could have improved things a bit had they swapped a player who, while not "hurting" the Bulls on offense, was at the same time never going to develop into the sort of scorer the Bulls needed to complement Rose. So ideally at the time you'd want a scoring PF or SG (pre-Butler's emergence) to supplement Rose's offense, but Boozer predictably wasn't going to be that guy, and you struck out with Hamilton and the other retreads who occupied that SG spot. So all I'm suggesting is you trade Noah to fill that scoring gap. Sure you take a hit tangibly and intangibly, but for on the court production it shouldn't have been too hard to find a guy who can give you around 70% of what Noah gave you if you gave him up for a scorer.
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