Isn't that true of everyone? If the team scored more runs then the pitcher would have a better chance of winning the game.

_________________

Like the indicators everyone used to trade for Samardzija when his W/L record showed you who he really was?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Sure I do.

He won 48% of his games with the Sox.[/quote] While at the same time, Chris Sale was winning over 60% of his games with the Sox...as JOrr correctly pointed out a few days ago.

When evaluating a player, looking at only one stat is just as foolish as completely ignoring a so-called antiquated stat like W-L or RBI.[/quote]




He's not Sale numbnuts, nobody said he was.. Jorr goes to the hof comparison and you go to Sale(future hof)

_________________

That's just as easily countered with games they were on the hook for a loss and the team ended up at least tying the game . Those even out for the most part

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Unfortunately, Jose Quintana- just like every other pitcher- has to pitch the actual games he is in rather than other theoretical games where his team is scoring runs by the dozen.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Another horse shit comparison, The guppy had a 4 era in the NL, Quintana will be significantly lower in the NL, The guppy was 5 in the AL, what's Q @ ? 3.6 in the AL.

_________________

Quintana got 2 runs or less in 55% of his Sox starts, that's abysmal.. You'd have to be Sale or Bob Gibson to make that look decent... He's a good 3 pitcher, he's not a hall of famer.

_________________

Sham ran the second fastest Kentucky Derby ever. Do you believe he was the second best horse ever to run in the Derby?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

2017-4.6
2016-4.0
2015-3.6
2014-4.1

That is the run support avg for Quintana. I would hope that given 4 runs a game is good enough for such a great pitcher.

Here is a guy that I never hear talked about like Quintana is... Good ol' Lance Lynn.

2015 run support of 3.3, finished 12-11. 2014 run support of 4.1, finished 15-10. How did he manage to be a winning pitcher when Quintana wasn't?

_________________

A Keith Law dicksucker talking bad about made up stats.

Cats & dogs living together, mass hysteria!

_________________

Hank, perhaps, but so far, so good.

Lynn's a good pitcher, and a righty.

_________________

Yeah, Lynn is fine but I don't hear people gushing over him like I do for Quintana. Maybe I'm wrong and the Cardinal contingent on the board will be along to correct me, I don't consume a ton of national baseball talk.

_________________

Lack of run support can fuck up a pitcher for a season. Maybe a season and a half. If it goes on longer than that, its likely the pitcher himself.

Can't wait for the HOF to put a .500 pitcher in next to Tom Seaver because his WAR and WHiP were so good.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Nobody is suggesting he's a hof pitcher, how many other guys in the AL have an era below 3.5 in a hitters park and are 50-54 ?

_________________

Murry Dickson and Joe Horlen are probably the best starting pitchers you can find with losing career records. Horlen was a game under .500. I would consider him a good comp for Quintana. He was a fine pitcher but all those numbers he piled up pitching in Sox Park make him seem better than he was. And his sparkling peripherals aren't unrelated to the fact that he lacked "run support".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Aren't the guys who are allowing less than Quintana in the games he pitches pitching in the same ballparks?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Right, that's the per 9 innings rate, not the amount of runs they actually gave to Quintana while he was in the game. What good is a run in the 9th for Quintana when he left in the 7th?

For his Sox career, Quintana started 169 games and received a total of 467 runs of offense from the Sox while in the game. That comes out to 2.76 runs per start. Here is the distribution of actual runs scored for every start with the Sox:



As you can see, Quintana was way more likely to get 2 runs or less in any given start, such games comprising 96 starts, or 57% of his career with the White Sox. He got 1 run or less in nearly 40% of the starts he made.

Comparatively, Chris Sale for his career got 3.57 runs per start from the Sox. And the year he finished 4th in the Cy Young voting despite a 13-11 record in 2015, Sale got 3.19 runs of support per start. Here is his actual run support per start distribution:



He got 2 runs or less a total of 70 times in his career, or 47% of his starts. Sale got 1 run or less in 32% of his starts.

Good stuff Juice.

_________________

You're assuming the starting pitchers he's going against are allowing fewer runs in all 54 of those losses.

JLN is packing heat. Love it.

To put the above in context, over the last 3 seasons, the league-average starter got 3.04 runs of support per start.

Wait league avg is 3.04 and he's gotten 2.76? So the difference is a quarter of a run (or nothing since that doesn't exist). At the very least, he should be a .500 pitcher. If he's that good he should be ABOVE AVERAGE. He isn't because hes just another guy with good SABR stats that chart making guys like to jerk off about.

_________________

Just to confirm, hes a great pitcher (not HOF but hall of very good) and has just been the most unlucky sap in all of baseball history. He's going to win 30 games a year for the Cubs now!!!

_________________

Not really, the average I gave isn't weighted. As I showed via the charts, a guy can "average" nearly 2.76 runs of support a game, but still get 2 runs or less in 57% of his starts. There is a vast difference in expected value between 2.76 R/G and 3.04, because the smallest resolution is 1 run.

Hank gets it.

_________________

I'm willing to bet it's a lot less since the twins came along .

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I want to be wrong. I want JLN to bump this thread in October and call me a dumbass.

_________________

There have been 67 starters since 2012 to throw at least 750 innings. Quintana is 64th in per start Run Support.

Here are the top 5:

Max Scherzer (3.96)
David Price (3.95)
CJ Wilson (3.83)
Clayton Kershaw (3.68)
Adam Wainwright (3.65)

I know.

I felt the same way. Eventually you come to realize he isn't some elite pitcher. He's ok.

_________________