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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:55 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I'm glad Dan is getting a chance to flex his social-justice muscles before it's time to sing the praises of giant corporations.


But first, lets have a doddering old guy (actor?) on to talk so we can make fun of the aged mentally infirm.

If ESPN had on anything better than Waddle & Silvy, I'd have tuned out completely years ago.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:20 am 
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Bernsie is so weird?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:02 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
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To my knowledge Bernstein has the same law degree I do. It is my understanding that since these guys are public figures, for them to win a case against Kluwe they would have to show some type of serious damage financially. If the are both able to find other jobs after this in the NFL, they couldn't win a suit.

Could someone tell me if I am completely wrong on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:40 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Alex Brown thinks the Bears should get 3 or 4 guys on the line that can rush the passer - that would increase Shea's value and improve the defense.


So basically Alex Brown is advocating squeezing Shea out of a job.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:45 am 
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Dave In Champaign wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Alex Brown thinks the Bears should get 3 or 4 guys on the line that can rush the passer - that would increase Shea's value and improve the defense.


"Get a bunch of other good players to make this one player look good" was pretty much their strategy with Cutler, so it's not that crazy a suggestion.


Not to come off as a defender of Cutler, and not saying this is your argument, but I never thought this was a strong criticism of Cutler. A GM should try to acquire as many talented players as possible, not to appease one or two other players, but as a matter of strategy, and basically out of logic, too.

So the Bears should have tried to get someone like Marshall anyway, irrespective of Cutler clamoring for him or not, and so on.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:25 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Dave In Champaign wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Alex Brown thinks the Bears should get 3 or 4 guys on the line that can rush the passer - that would increase Shea's value and improve the defense.


"Get a bunch of other good players to make this one player look good" was pretty much their strategy with Cutler, so it's not that crazy a suggestion.


Not to come off as a defender of Cutler, and not saying this is your argument, but I never thought this was a strong criticism of Cutler. A GM should try to acquire as many talented players as possible, not to appease one or two other players, but as a matter of strategy, and basically out of logic, too.

So the Bears should have tried to get someone like Marshall anyway, irrespective of Cutler clamoring for him or not, and so on.


True, but there has been a pretty consistent narrative since he arrived in Chicago that the reason Cutler has never looked like a big-time quarterback is due to factors beyond his control, i.e. constantly changing offenses, terrible players around him, etc. I can't think of any other quarterback who has been given such excuses by many fans and even much of the media.

And it's really not pertinent. When Jay wasn't great "because his offensive line was porous", Aaron Rodgers had a worse line and was on his way to being considered among the best of all-time. Great quarterbacks are great and the average fan knows they're great. It doesn't take poring over statistics on sites like Football Outsiders, Advanced Stats NFL, or Total QBR. Jay isn't great. Surrounding him with a team of Hall of Famers won't make him great.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:14 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

Not to come off as a defender of Cutler, and not saying this is your argument, but I never thought this was a strong criticism of Cutler. A GM should try to acquire as many talented players as possible, not to appease one or two other players, but as a matter of strategy, and basically out of logic, too.

So the Bears should have tried to get someone like Marshall anyway, irrespective of Cutler clamoring for him or not, and so on.


True, but there has been a pretty consistent narrative since he arrived in Chicago that the reason Cutler has never looked like a big-time quarterback is due to factors beyond his control, i.e. constantly changing offenses, terrible players around him, etc. I can't think of any other quarterback who has been given such excuses by many fans and even much of the media.

And it's really not pertinent. When Jay wasn't great "because his offensive line was porous", Aaron Rodgers had a worse line and was on his way to being considered among the best of all-time. Great quarterbacks are great and the average fan knows they're great. It doesn't take poring over statistics on sites like Football Outsiders, Advanced Stats NFL, or Total QBR. Jay isn't great. Surrounding him with a team of Hall of Famers won't make him great.


I think the narrative has fallen apart because, as you point out, Cutler just isn't that megastar franchise QB, but at the same time it is true that his supporting cast sucked. So for me, both are true: Cutler was/is overrated, and the supporting cast did suck.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:21 am 
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^ meaning that it was still a poor effort by Angelo to surround your (at that time) star QB with the likes of Devin Hester, Roy Williams, and a miscast Johnny Knox as "primary" weapons. Even though we know, in retrospect, Cutler wouldn't have vaulted the Bears into contention with upgraded pieces anyway, it still doesn't invalidate the personnel criticism. On the other hand, to be fair, Cutler did get the Bears to the championship game with those second-class WRs as his primary weapons. How that happened is beyond my comprehension.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:30 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
On the other hand, to be fair, Cutler did get the Bears to the championship game with those second-class WRs as his primary weapons. How that happened is beyond my comprehension.

Defense, special teams, and playing the Bills/Jets/Dolphins, probably.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:35 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

Not to come off as a defender of Cutler, and not saying this is your argument, but I never thought this was a strong criticism of Cutler. A GM should try to acquire as many talented players as possible, not to appease one or two other players, but as a matter of strategy, and basically out of logic, too.

So the Bears should have tried to get someone like Marshall anyway, irrespective of Cutler clamoring for him or not, and so on.


True, but there has been a pretty consistent narrative since he arrived in Chicago that the reason Cutler has never looked like a big-time quarterback is due to factors beyond his control, i.e. constantly changing offenses, terrible players around him, etc. I can't think of any other quarterback who has been given such excuses by many fans and even much of the media.

And it's really not pertinent. When Jay wasn't great "because his offensive line was porous", Aaron Rodgers had a worse line and was on his way to being considered among the best of all-time. Great quarterbacks are great and the average fan knows they're great. It doesn't take poring over statistics on sites like Football Outsiders, Advanced Stats NFL, or Total QBR. Jay isn't great. Surrounding him with a team of Hall of Famers won't make him great.


I think the narrative has fallen apart because, as you point out, Cutler just isn't that megastar franchise QB, but at the same time it is true that his supporting cast sucked. So for me, both are true: Cutler was/is overrated, and the supporting cast did suck.


Oh, I think he can win. But it won't be because of him. It won't be in spite of him either. It will be because he didn't fuck anything up. That's who he is. A middle of the pack kind of guy. He has an arm and feet that make you hope and think that he will one day be better. Maybe he will. But that's like hoping Gavin Floyd is better. It's not really something I would count on. And I sure wouldn't pay for that hope the way they have.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:57 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Image


To my knowledge Bernstein has the same law degree I do. It is my understanding that since these guys are public figures, for them to win a case against Kluwe they would have to show some type of serious damage financially. If the are both able to find other jobs after this in the NFL, they couldn't win a suit.

Could someone tell me if I am completely wrong on this?


No, you are right. They would have to show the statements were made with a malicious intent. Very tough to prove.

Danny doesn't seems to realize that it might not be a big enough deal to these guys to spend $100,000 on attorney fees.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:10 am 
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I wonder if Chris Kluwe is even liked among the SJWs at Reddit. Do they embrace him for being a Strong Male Ally, or do they talk shit about him for being a dork who plays video games and represents the patriarchy? I bet that shitlord wears a fedora!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:28 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I wonder if Chris Kluwe is even liked among the SJWs at Reddit. Do they embrace him for being a Strong Male Ally, or do they talk shit about him for being a dork who plays video games and represents the patriarchy? I bet that shitlord wears a fedora!


oh wow, if you use the term "SJWs" in context have you heard about the feminist software foundation? they're working on a programming language called c+= (c plus equality) where there's no 0 or 1 logic because 1s look like a phallus and hearken opporession from CIS scum who need a privilege check. i have no idea how they're doing the logic, but one of the huge ideas is that everything is equal in that programming language because why can't everything be equal in a programming language?

it's one of the few times i've been really proud of something to eminate from 4chan, suffice to say.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:50 am 
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I haven't heard of that, but that's awesome. That'll show le STEM SAWCSMs.

I really don't get the whole SJW/Tumblr/ShitRedditSays thing. Somehow they've decided that the worst people in the world are introverted guys who fuck around on the internet, the same conclusion reached by every date-raping alpha-male fuckhead you ever knew in grade school/middle school/high school. Two sides of the same coin; I'd say they should just get it over with and fuck already if I weren't so sure it's happening as we speak.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:36 pm 
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I kinda wish I didn't look up the terms SJW, SAWCSM, etc., although from what I read about SJW (A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation), it does seem to describe Bernsie.

The feminist software foundation stuff is pretty funny.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

Not to come off as a defender of Cutler, and not saying this is your argument, but I never thought this was a strong criticism of Cutler. A GM should try to acquire as many talented players as possible, not to appease one or two other players, but as a matter of strategy, and basically out of logic, too.

So the Bears should have tried to get someone like Marshall anyway, irrespective of Cutler clamoring for him or not, and so on.


True, but there has been a pretty consistent narrative since he arrived in Chicago that the reason Cutler has never looked like a big-time quarterback is due to factors beyond his control, i.e. constantly changing offenses, terrible players around him, etc. I can't think of any other quarterback who has been given such excuses by many fans and even much of the media.

And it's really not pertinent. When Jay wasn't great "because his offensive line was porous", Aaron Rodgers had a worse line and was on his way to being considered among the best of all-time. Great quarterbacks are great and the average fan knows they're great. It doesn't take poring over statistics on sites like Football Outsiders, Advanced Stats NFL, or Total QBR. Jay isn't great. Surrounding him with a team of Hall of Famers won't make him great.


I think the narrative has fallen apart because, as you point out, Cutler just isn't that megastar franchise QB, but at the same time it is true that his supporting cast sucked. So for me, both are true: Cutler was/is overrated, and the supporting cast did suck.


Oh, I think he can win. But it won't be because of him. It won't be in spite of him either. It will be because he didn't fuck anything up. That's who he is. A middle of the pack kind of guy. He has an arm and feet that make you hope and think that he will one day be better. Maybe he will. But that's like hoping Gavin Floyd is better. It's not really something I would count on. And I sure wouldn't pay for that hope the way they have.


I don't know if the Bears will feel the weight of his full contract like teams in the MLB or NBA feel when they sign bad players to big contracts. They will pay 50 or whatever million in guaranteed money to a second class QB and hope, and reasonably so, that he can do just enough to get them to the Super Bowl. More than any other sport, I think, there are plenty of guys on the street who can do what NFL players do (e.g. Warner, Brady, Romo, Foster, etc.), so even if this contract doesn't work out, it's not like the Bears will be set back in any substantial sense.

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