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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
I'm just wondering whether there will be any "if Ryne Sandberg were manager, we would have won" calls after this series.


They will be saying Ryan Sandberg.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:26 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Didn't RPB only say that the Mets weren't the best team in the regular season? I don't think he said the Cardinals are the deserving champions unless I missed it.
Well, we are talking about the whole season, which includes the playoffs. That is why I'm not sure. There were a lot of best teams at various times of the baseball season. The White Sox even were for a short period of time. The Cardinals did it at a slightly better rate than the Cubs, who did it as a marginally better rate than the Mets. However, teams evolve, make moves, bring up players that aren't there.

I guess my ultimate point is that the regular season is also imperfect, so outside of the 1 game playoff you get a good idea of who the better team is at the current time, and then the two best teams in the league play, and then the two best teams in baseball play.

leashyourkids wrote:
Acknowledging that the best team in the regular season is not necessarily the best team in the playoffs isn't really taking anything away from the World Series winner. Baseball has constructed their sport that way, so the eventual champion is the champion. But it's naive to think that if they played 15 game series instead of 5 and 7, there wouldn't be a very different list of World Series winners throughout history. That's not even specific to baseball. That's likely true in any sport.
What I'm saying is that the team with the most wins in the regular season may not be the best team. Obviously, the Cardinals aren't close to the best team now. The Cubs destroyed them. If they had played a 15 game series, the Cubs still destroy them.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:27 pm 
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midenginerearwheeldrive wrote:
Bernstein already doing the 'they will be great in the future' and will compete every year for years to come and will win one? Oh, so that's a given?

Tell that to Texas. And Detroit. And Tampa. And Washington.



And the Indians in the late 90's. The Twins and A's in the early 2000's.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
The Pecota is a metric how did they do on predictions


This is the Pagoda.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What I'm saying is that the team with the most wins in the regular season may not be the best team. Obviously, the Cardinals aren't close to the best team now. The Cubs destroyed them. If they had played a 15 game series, the Cubs still destroy them.


They beat them. There were close games in late innings. I think you are being a bit liberal with "destroyed". Obviously roster changes, and in the Cardinals case injuries, can cause who the "best team" is in any given time frame to shift. Maybe that's why a 162 game grind is a better indicator of who the best team is over a short playoff series. Again, doesn't mean the regular season winner is a more deserving champion than the World Series winner. 98% of those polled said they would rather win the World Series than have the best regular season record.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Didn't RPB only say that the Mets weren't the best team in the regular season? I don't think he said the Cardinals are the deserving champions unless I missed it.
Well, we are talking about the whole season, which includes the playoffs. That is why I'm not sure. There were a lot of best teams at various times of the baseball season. The White Sox even were for a short period of time. The Cardinals did it at a slightly better rate than the Cubs, who did it as a marginally better rate than the Mets. However, teams evolve, make moves, bring up players that aren't there.

I guess my ultimate point is that the regular season is also imperfect, so outside of the 1 game playoff you get a good idea of who the better team is at the current time, and then the two best teams in the league play, and then the two best teams in baseball play.

leashyourkids wrote:
Acknowledging that the best team in the regular season is not necessarily the best team in the playoffs isn't really taking anything away from the World Series winner. Baseball has constructed their sport that way, so the eventual champion is the champion. But it's naive to think that if they played 15 game series instead of 5 and 7, there wouldn't be a very different list of World Series winners throughout history. That's not even specific to baseball. That's likely true in any sport.
What I'm saying is that the team with the most wins in the regular season may not be the best team. Obviously, the Cardinals aren't close to the best team now. The Cubs destroyed them. If they had played a 15 game series, the Cubs still destroy them.


Aren't you kind of acknowledging what he's saying, though? There are better teams at different times, and the team that is the best during the playoffs is the World Series winner. I mean, the Cubs wouldn't have destroyed the Cardinals if they played their series in, say, June. The Cubs got better, the Cardinals got worse.

I think the best argument one could make is that the playoffs are really a different game than the regular season. In the playoffs, there is a higher premium on all pitching (since it is less variable), but particularly starting pitching, and even more particularly top-end starting pitching (since the short span of games allows a manager to pitch top-end starters frequently). Knowing this, it is that organization's job to build a team that can succeed enough in the regular season to make the playoffs and then flourish in the playoffs. Even if you do this perfectly, it doesn't guarantee you'll win the WS, but it gives you the best chance, IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:44 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Aren't you kind of acknowledging what he's saying, though? There are better teams at different times, and the team that is the best during the playoffs is the World Series winner. I mean, the Cubs wouldn't have destroyed the Cardinals if they played their series in, say, June. The Cubs got better, the Cardinals got worse.
Yeah, but there has to be a time where everyone is working to be the best. Use the Cubs for instance. Bryant and Schwarber weren't on the team at the start of the season. I believe the Mets called people up too. They also made some big trades. To think the Mets weren't better than the Cardinals with all those changes just seems incorrect to me.
leashyourkids wrote:
I think the best argument one could make is that the playoffs are really a different game than the regular season. In the playoffs, there is a higher premium on all pitching (since it is less variable), but particularly starting pitching, and even more particularly top-end starting pitching (since the short span of games allows a manager to pitch top-end starters frequently). Knowing this, it is that organization's job to build a team that can succeed enough in the regular season to make the playoffs and then flourish in the playoffs. Even if you do this perfectly, it doesn't guarantee you'll win the WS, but it gives you the best chance, IMO.
That's true, but aren't the playoffs more important? It's not like you have to choose which to be good at, and if you did, no one would pick the regular season anyways.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:48 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
"Randomness" isn't really the right word. It's really that baseball is a game of time and repetition. I can watch BRick go against Michael Jordan for a minute and know who is better. Seven games isn't enough to separate Daniel Murphy from Babe Ruth.


Agreed. This is going to sound so Bernstein, so my apologies in advance, but it's a game that employs the law of large numbers. The metrics are a reflection of this. Over the course of 162 games, most anomolies will work themselves out.

Baseball has a system which sort of turns this principle on its head in the playoffs, as it reduces the game to a very small sample size. That's why metrics are naturally going to mean much less in a 5 or 7 game series.



Yes, and I don't think Barry Bonds and Ted Williams "sucked" in the post season. A stretch in which they happened to underperform just happened to fall in the postseason. By the same token, I don't think Mark Lemke and Jorge Soler "turn it up a notch" for the playoffs. They both just happened to perform well at the right time. That's what I believe anyway. But maybe Bonds just did suck in the playoffs and maybe Soler just comes to play in the postseason. We really can't be sure. And that's what makes it interesting.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Aren't you kind of acknowledging what he's saying, though? There are better teams at different times, and the team that is the best during the playoffs is the World Series winner. I mean, the Cubs wouldn't have destroyed the Cardinals if they played their series in, say, June. The Cubs got better, the Cardinals got worse.
Yeah, but there has to be a time where everyone is working to be the best. Use the Cubs for instance. Bryant and Schwarber weren't on the team at the start of the season. I believe the Mets called people up too. They also made some big trades. To think the Mets weren't better than the Cardinals with all those changes just seems incorrect to me.
leashyourkids wrote:
I think the best argument one could make is that the playoffs are really a different game than the regular season. In the playoffs, there is a higher premium on all pitching (since it is less variable), but particularly starting pitching, and even more particularly top-end starting pitching (since the short span of games allows a manager to pitch top-end starters frequently). Knowing this, it is that organization's job to build a team that can succeed enough in the regular season to make the playoffs and then flourish in the playoffs. Even if you do this perfectly, it doesn't guarantee you'll win the WS, but it gives you the best chance, IMO.
That's true, but aren't the playoffs more important? It's not like you have to choose which to be good at, and if you did, no one would pick the regular season anyways.


Yes, but it's kind of a balance. It's not easy to make the playoffs. A team could choose to spend all their money on two all-world starting pitchers and three sub-par starting pitchers, and though they'd probably do pretty well in the playoffs, the lopsided rotation could cause them to miss the playoffs altogether. That's obviously an extreme example, but I think the philosophy is really what a GM should be trying to balance (and to build the team into a "playoff mold" toward the end of the season).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:56 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
"Randomness" isn't really the right word. It's really that baseball is a game of time and repetition. I can watch BRick go against Michael Jordan for a minute and know who is better. Seven games isn't enough to separate Daniel Murphy from Babe Ruth.


Agreed. This is going to sound so Bernstein, so my apologies in advance, but it's a game that employs the law of large numbers. The metrics are a reflection of this. Over the course of 162 games, most anomolies will work themselves out.

Baseball has a system which sort of turns this principle on its head in the playoffs, as it reduces the game to a very small sample size. That's why metrics are naturally going to mean much less in a 5 or 7 game series.



By the same token, I don't think Mark Lemke and Jorge Soler "turn it up a notch" for the playoffs. They both just happened to perform well at the right time. That's what I believe anyway.


Well, that's where you're wrong, my friend. Jorge Soler is the new Reggie Jackson, but he prefers to go by "Senor October."

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:17 pm 
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When did the White Sox or any other team that won the WS know they were a year away by not making the playoffs the year before????

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
When did the White Sox or any other team that won the WS know they were a year away by not making the playoffs the year before????
2015

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:37 pm 
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man, hearing terry echo dan's YOU DONT TRADE SCHWARBER stuff reminds me of the good ol days, you know when schwarber had his 2nd callup and was hitting .350 and was !!!!!!! and everyone was digging through baseball-reference to find crappy old catchers who had big #s right when they came up but were found out and then journeyman/backup catchers..... well during that period i remember terry saying that schwarber is an AL player and you trade him to somebody to get a bigtime pitcher right now!

welp, now of course since dan is talking about historic schwarber postseason #s and YOU DONT TRADE HIM terry is echoing that and yeah yeah yeahing it, and im sure if he was asked about it he'd never cop to previously saying that you trade schwarber for a bigtime pitcher (which is a position the cubs need, just not for their best clutch/high-pressure-situation hitter) cuz yeah, what dan says.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:50 pm 
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sinicalypse wrote:
man, hearing terry echo dan's YOU DONT TRADE SCHWARBER stuff reminds me of the good ol days, you know when schwarber had his 2nd callup and was hitting .350 and was !!!!!!! and everyone was digging through baseball-reference to find crappy old catchers who had big #s right when they came up but were found out and then journeyman/backup catchers..... well during that period i remember terry saying that schwarber is an AL player and you trade him to somebody to get a bigtime pitcher right now!

welp, now of course since dan is talking about historic schwarber postseason #s and YOU DONT TRADE HIM terry is echoing that and yeah yeah yeahing it, and im sure if he was asked about it he'd never cop to previously saying that you trade schwarber for a bigtime pitcher (which is a position the cubs need, just not for their best clutch/high-pressure-situation hitter) cuz yeah, what dan says.


Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Reared on the Score wrote:

Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


Exactly.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Reared on the Score wrote:

Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


Exactly.


Correct; Wasn't it up until the trading deadline that Boers actually advocated trading Schwarber for a front-line pitcher like Price?

What's changed? He may never have a position to play, but to be shocked by bad outfield defense and then ripping on callers says more about him than the caller.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:55 pm 
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BD wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Reared on the Score wrote:

Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


Exactly.


Correct; Wasn't it up until the trading deadline that Boers actually advocated trading Schwarber for a front-line pitcher like Price?

What's changed? He may never have a position to play, but to be shocked by bad outfield defense and then ripping on callers says more about him than the caller.


What's changed???? He. hit. a. ball. on. the scoreboard!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:58 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
BD wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Reared on the Score wrote:

Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


Exactly.


Correct; Wasn't it up until the trading deadline that Boers actually advocated trading Schwarber for a front-line pitcher like Price?

What's changed? He may never have a position to play, but to be shocked by bad outfield defense and then ripping on callers says more about him than the caller.


What's changed???? He. hit. a. ball. on. the scoreboard!


He probably doesn't remember what he even says, especially if you just agree with Bernstein on nearly everything he says.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:12 pm 
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Reared on the Score wrote:
sinicalypse wrote:
man, hearing terry echo dan's YOU DONT TRADE SCHWARBER stuff reminds me of the good ol days, you know when schwarber had his 2nd callup and was hitting .350 and was !!!!!!! and everyone was digging through baseball-reference to find crappy old catchers who had big #s right when they came up but were found out and then journeyman/backup catchers..... well during that period i remember terry saying that schwarber is an AL player and you trade him to somebody to get a bigtime pitcher right now!

welp, now of course since dan is talking about historic schwarber postseason #s and YOU DONT TRADE HIM terry is echoing that and yeah yeah yeahing it, and im sure if he was asked about it he'd never cop to previously saying that you trade schwarber for a bigtime pitcher (which is a position the cubs need, just not for their best clutch/high-pressure-situation hitter) cuz yeah, what dan says.


Yeah, and while I happen to agree that it's too early to give up on Schwarber in LF, it wasn't so bad of a point to break out the 'dumb caller voice' like Dan did. durrrr I've seen ONE game. Well now it's two games where he boffed easy plays. A Mets tweeter invoked the name Todd Hundley, and that's not so crazy as to be mocked.


Make that 3 plays in 2 days...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 am 
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More reason not to listen to WCUB......uggghhhhhhhh

Chicago Cubs

CBS Radio plans to move Chicago Cubs baseball broadcasts to sports/talk WSCR AM 670 next year, sources said.

For the past season, the Cubs aired on all-news WBBM AM 780. Under a seven-year agreement signed in 2014, CBS Radio has a one-time opportunity to move the team to The Score in 2016.

Rod Zimmerman, senior vice president and market manager of CBS Radio Chicago, would not confirm the move Thursday but said a final decision would be announced “probably in the next 30 to 45 days.”

The shift would coincide with the departure of Chicago White Sox baseball broadcasts from The Score after 10 years, and that team’s move to Cumulus Media news/talk WLS AM 890, effective this spring.

Although the Cubs season ended short of a National League Championship Series victory Wednesday, the popularity of the club proved a ratings bonanza to WBBM Newsradio, which is expected to widen its first-place lead in the market when Nielsen Audio figures for October are released.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:42 am 
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Here's a dumb question - if The Score is going to have Cubs games, umm, what does that mean for B&B? Most Cubs games are on smack dab in the middle of their afternoon broadcast.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:43 am 
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midenginerearwheeldrive wrote:
Here's a dumb question - if The Score is going to have Cubs games, umm, what does that mean for B&B? Most Cubs games are on smack dab in the middle of their afternoon broadcast.


THERE. WILL BE. MORE. NIGHT GAMES. SMART. EXECUTIVES. DON'T. WANT. DAY. BASEBALL.

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