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Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=78412
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Author:  Beardown [ Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Which, of course, is Terry's "Rose stance" as well. Nobody at the Score knows how to go at him. I do. And I'm right.

Bernstein: PLAYING GAMES IS PART OF THE REHAB.

Now, he's also said the Bulls can't win the title this year. His stance before he figured out Derrick's rehab was playing NBA games was "So what? Miss the season, Derrick. Can't win with this team."

I agree. Playing basketball is a part of the rehab and the Bulls can't win a title.

But then word has come out that Derrick is KILLING guys in practice. That means he's going hard. It also means he's going hard knowing he's not gonna take cheap shots - won't be undercut. SO HE IS GETTING THE PROPER REHAB. Why risk an injury? Not the just the knee. But any other injury that would set him back for next year.

It's the proper way to do it. KILLING IT IN PRACTICE FULFILLS THE REHAB. Derrick's knee doesn't know it's only practice. Like I said, he's going hard. It's the proper rehab. Bulls can't win shit this year.

I win. Bernstein loses. Score people can take this if they want. Drinky is always looking to win an argument vs. Bernstein. He has never done so in his 10+ year career. Here you go, drinky. I'm giving this to you. No need to thank me cuz I know you won't.

Author:  bigfan [ Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Kind of agree

You keep hearing news about what he is doing when he plays in practice.

Kinda the same thing, unless you are Allen Iverson!

Author:  Powerhouse233 [ Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

You make a cogent point.

Author:  Franky T [ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

PRACTICE IS NOT HE SAME AS PLAYING. IN. REAL. GAMES.

Author:  prickly pete [ Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Quote:
It's the proper way to do it. KILLING IT IN PRACTICE FULFILLS THE REHAB. Derrick's knee doesn't know it's only practice.
If you called in with this comment, Bernstein would say "NO. NO. NO. YOU -- AREN'T -- LISTENING. THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN KNEE AND BRAIN RE-CONNECTED IS THRU IN-GAME CUTTING/JUMPING/SHOOTING.

LISTEN.. TO.. YOUR.. DOCTOR..

Author:  bigfan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Franky T wrote:
PRACTICE IS NOT HE SAME AS PLAYING. IN. REAL. GAMES.


Agree, but at some point if you can practice you can play.

It would be best for the Rose camp to just say he is hsutting it down for the year and go to LA.

Author:  Regular Reader [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

bigfan wrote:
It would be best for the Rose camp to just say he is hsutting it down for the year and go to LA.


Can he do that this year? Doesn't/shouldn't he have to generally stay in Chicago this summer to work on his damaged p.r.?

Just wondering.

Author:  Beardown [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Like I said earlier, if he's going hard and dominating in 5 on 5 in practice, it's the appropriate rehab. Does his knee know it's not an NBA game? :roll: Better to fulfill the rehab in a controlled environment.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Beardown wrote:
Like I said earlier, if he's going hard and dominating in 5 on 5 in practice, it's the appropriate rehab. Does his knee know it's not an NBA game? :roll: Better to fulfill the rehab in a controlled environment.


But injuries can occur in both practice and games. I think the point is if he's medically cleared, sure, he can get rehab while playing in practice, but he's paid to play in games.

Author:  Beardown [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

veganfan21 wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Like I said earlier, if he's going hard and dominating in 5 on 5 in practice, it's the appropriate rehab. Does his knee know it's not an NBA game? :roll: Better to fulfill the rehab in a controlled environment.


But injuries can occur in both practice and games. I think the point is if he's medically cleared, sure, he can get rehab while playing in practice, but he's paid to play in games.


Of course they can. It's just less likely to happen in practice. Rose is an investment. Can't win this year. Reinsdorf has him locked up for 5 more years while he's in his prime. Why risk doing damage to your investment?

For what? 5 more regular season games and a possible first round victory over the Nets? That's not even a lock. But if they do win, it only means they advance to get wang-whipped by Lebron and the Heat. Not worth it.

Take your chances at the Heat next year with a completely rehabbed Rose.

Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Beardown wrote:
Which, of course, is Terry's "Rose stance" as well. Nobody at the Score knows how to go at him. I do. And I'm right.

Bernstein: PLAYING GAMES IS PART OF THE REHAB.

Now, he's also said the Bulls can't win the title this year. His stance before he figured out Derrick's rehab was playing NBA games was "So what? Miss the season, Derrick. Can't win with this team."

I agree. Playing basketball is a part of the rehab and the Bulls can't win a title.

But then word has come out that Derrick is KILLING guys in practice. That means he's going hard. It also means he's going hard knowing he's not gonna take cheap shots - won't be undercut. SO HE IS GETTING THE PROPER REHAB. Why risk an injury? Not the just the knee. But any other injury that would set him back for next year.

It's the proper way to do it. KILLING IT IN PRACTICE FULFILLS THE REHAB. Derrick's knee doesn't know it's only practice. Like I said, he's going hard. It's the proper rehab. Bulls can't win shit this year.

I win. Bernstein loses. Score people can take this if they want. Drinky is always looking to win an argument vs. Bernstein. He has never done so in his 10+ year career. Here you go, drinky. I'm giving this to you. No need to thank me cuz I know you won't.
No you don't win. You've built a straw man argument. As noted by Franky, practicing hard is not the same as playing in a game...particularly when your trying to overcome a psychological issue. Is pitching a simulated game the same as throwing to opposing batters? How many guys claim to be great free throw shooters in practice only to clank them when they matter. This has nothing to do with this year. If Rose were to get a couple of real games under his belt he would go into next year with less concern about his knee.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Zippy, you seem to agree with Bernstein a lot.

What do you disagree with him about?

Author:  IkeSouth [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

trade rose to the lakers for a shit ton of cash and disperse it back to the fans.

Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

rogers park bryan wrote:
Zippy, you seem to agree with Bernstein a lot.

What do you disagree with him about?
I do agree with him most of the time. That perception may be skewed further because I frequently post in response to comments which I find to be mischaracterizations...which are rampant in the B&B section.
However, off the top of my head I disagree with his stance on fans of colleges they didn't attend. I think he (& Terry) lack perspective when they are talking about someone they love or hate. I think it is possible to call a season successful even if it doesn't result in a championship. I don't immediately dismiss the idea that players from previous generations weren't as good as present ones.

Author:  Beardown [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Which, of course, is Terry's "Rose stance" as well. Nobody at the Score knows how to go at him. I do. And I'm right.

Bernstein: PLAYING GAMES IS PART OF THE REHAB.

Now, he's also said the Bulls can't win the title this year. His stance before he figured out Derrick's rehab was playing NBA games was "So what? Miss the season, Derrick. Can't win with this team."

I agree. Playing basketball is a part of the rehab and the Bulls can't win a title.

But then word has come out that Derrick is KILLING guys in practice. That means he's going hard. It also means he's going hard knowing he's not gonna take cheap shots - won't be undercut. SO HE IS GETTING THE PROPER REHAB. Why risk an injury? Not the just the knee. But any other injury that would set him back for next year.

It's the proper way to do it. KILLING IT IN PRACTICE FULFILLS THE REHAB. Derrick's knee doesn't know it's only practice. Like I said, he's going hard. It's the proper rehab. Bulls can't win shit this year.

I win. Bernstein loses. Score people can take this if they want. Drinky is always looking to win an argument vs. Bernstein. He has never done so in his 10+ year career. Here you go, drinky. I'm giving this to you. No need to thank me cuz I know you won't.
No you don't win. You've built a straw man argument. As noted by Franky, practicing hard is not the same as playing in a game...particularly when your trying to overcome a psychological issue. Is pitching a simulated game the same as throwing to opposing batters? How many guys claim to be great free throw shooters in practice only to clank them when they matter. This has nothing to do with this year. If Rose were to get a couple of real games under his belt he would go into next year with less concern about his knee.


Hearing that he's dominating in practice was the key for me. Not just going lightly. That clears the mental aspect. Your free throw analogy sucks. Doesn't apply here. Derrick will dominate in real NBA games next year just like he's doing in practice. Nobody should have any doubt about that.

Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Beardown wrote:
Hearing that he's dominating in practice was the key for me. Not just going lightly. That clears the mental aspect.
If the "mental aspect" has been cleared then why isn't he playing? Either he isn't the competitor that we've always believed him to be or he's a bit scared.

Author:  Beardown [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Hearing that he's dominating in practice was the key for me. Not just going lightly. That clears the mental aspect.
If the "mental aspect" has been cleared then why isn't he playing? Either he isn't the competitor that we've always believed him to be or he's a bit scared.


I'll repeat myself again. Practice is controlled. Less likely for injury. Why risk anything at this point in an NBA game? Not just the knee, but any other sort of injury. No point.

Author:  Nas [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

You make a great point about him rehabbing in practice BUT if he's mentally and physically ready to play he should be playing in games like everyone else.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Zippy, you seem to agree with Bernstein a lot.

What do you disagree with him about?
I do agree with him most of the time. That perception may be skewed further because I frequently post in response to comments which I find to be mischaracterizations...which are rampant in the B&B section.
However, off the top of my head I disagree with his stance on fans of colleges they didn't attend. I think he (& Terry) lack perspective when they are talking about someone they love or hate. I think it is possible to call a season successful even if it doesn't result in a championship. I don't immediately dismiss the idea that players from previous generations weren't as good as present ones.

Thank you for not taking that the wrong way.

I didnt mean it like "you're such a Bernstein clone" or whatever.

Author:  SHARK [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

I heard a caller ponder this after the Nationals put the White Sox to bed last night with The SCORE's Joe Ostrowski. The caller wondered why Derrick Rose did NOT get the surgery performed by Dr. James Andrews, the Alabama-based surgeon who did ACL surgeries on Vikings' RB Adrian Peterson & Redskins' QB Robert Griffin III. This while Rose's surgery was done by Bulls' Team Doctor Brian Cole last May, about 2 weeks after Rose tore the ACL in Game 1 of the NBA Playoffs vs. the Sixers at United Center.

While Dr. Cole acknowledged to reporters that Rose's recovery would be an 8-12 month process right after the surgery, "B & B's" former producer Jason Goff mentioned the same such friction on one of his solo shows before he left for The Game SportsRadio in Atlanta. There have also been questions about Dr. Cole, I thought I've heard as well.

Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Beardown wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Hearing that he's dominating in practice was the key for me. Not just going lightly. That clears the mental aspect.
If the "mental aspect" has been cleared then why isn't he playing? Either he isn't the competitor that we've always believed him to be or he's a bit scared.


I'll repeat myself again. Practice is controlled. Less likely for injury. Why risk anything at this point in an NBA game? Not just the knee, but any other sort of injury. No point.
Then you're saying he's not the competitor we thought he was. That's worse than being scared (which is actually understandable).

Author:  jimmypasta [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Is Derrick Rose a glass vase? He should be playing.I have been on his side since the beginning,but after reading his practice efforts,it's time. That is why they pay him. It doesn't matter the odds of winning the title,earn your money!! It's starting to border on breach of contract. How much longer is "not yet" tolerable?

Author:  Beardown [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Rose is gonna come back next year, win the MVP and lead the Bulls to 60 + wins. All of this year's nonsense will be forgotten and everybody will love him.

They'll face the Heat in the conference finals. Might still lose, but he'll regain his game and reputation. I think he's gonna actually be better. He'll be a much better 3 point shooter. He wasn't that bad at it last year. He shot a decent percentage. He'll just take more 3s next year.

Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Zippy, you seem to agree with Bernstein a lot.

What do you disagree with him about?
I don't immediately dismiss the idea that players from previous generations weren't as good as present ones.

I believe I heard the other day that George Mikan wouldnt start on a Div 1 college team nowadays.

Author:  NearWessSideHussra [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

Why not play 10 minutes in an actual game to start? Like tonight's game in Toronto, spell his tired teammates for a bit in the 1st half, then shut it down for the night. Repeat and increase minutes in the next game and the next and so on.

Would give his teammates both a physical and mental lift.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter argument to Bernstein's Derrick Rose stance

All this Rose stuff is ultimately meaningless. The biggest questions facing the Bulls right now involve reshaping the core to become contenders during the next 2-5 years.

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