He also said Peyton Manning didn't have the players around him like Brady had (???) and he suffered having Mike Vanderjagt as his kicker (!!!). Let's see, Mike Vanderjagt is the 4th most accurate kicker in NFL history. In fact, he's the only kicker in the top 15 who isn't still active (which shows how kickers are now better than ever, for reasons unknown).

ZZ, who are you crappin'?

He really doesn't have a good thought tonight.

He's half-right. That barely counts a win considering Minny didn't have a functioning quarterback.

i swear ZZ recently made comments to the effect that Branden Hardin was still a bear whether it be IR or however his injury designation was handled.... well the jets just signed him away

seriously phil emery's first draft (shea, alshon, hardin, rodriguez, frey) is already way worse than your typical angelo draft.... the homerun he hit on alshon is the only thing keeping the 2012 draft class from the worst of all time.

I don't think anything is gonna top the 2007 draft for deep badness.

Didn't Brady have one of the best WR of all-time? Or do we conveniently forgot Moss?

And he didnt win a SB with him, broke lots of records but no title. He only won with the mediocre ones. Very strange.

The Manning Brady thing is worse, imo

Brady had Deion Branch and Troy Brown, Manning had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne

Brady had Kevin Faulk, Peyton had Edge James

Brady had Daniel Graham, Peyton had Dallas Clark



That kind of stupid comment is something you'd expect from someone who wasnt a fan of football at the time

Manning gets a bad rap in this dept, IMO. Brady has played with just as good of players in different positions.
And let's not forget that Brady has the coach many consider the best of all time.

It's amazing how Manning was always surrounded with talent. Even when players would leave Indianapolis, equally or more talented players would take their place. Then, he leaves Indianapolis, and happens to go to a place where he is surrounded by talent once again.

It seems almost like there is a reason why he's always surrounded by talent.

Didn't Brady have one of the best WR of all-time? Or do we conveniently forgot Moss?

That's picking and choosing from very specific times in each of their careers.

In their entire careers, Brady has worked with:

-better WR's
-better TE's
-better Def's

Manning had Harrison for much longer than Brady had Moss, but Moss is top-3 of all time. Make it happen. Didn't happen.
Welker is pretty damn good too. Branch was no slouch by any means.
The TE combo that Brady has worked with is probably the best combo.......ever?
Indy had 1-2 really good defensive players many years, but their overall defense was less than the NE defenses with Wilfork, Milloy, Harrison, Bruschi/Vrabel/Mayo, etc.

Manning gets a bad rap in this dept, IMO. Brady has played with just as good of players in different positions.
And let's not forget that Brady has the coach many consider the best of all time.

And disagree on the Wide Recievers. Wayne and Harrison are better than any two the Pats ever had.


And which players were good without each QB?

Moss and Welker - pretty good without Brady, I believe.

Moss is the best WR being discussed in this thread, and its not close.

Yeah, I guess Im just talking about the 2001-2006 years. Since then it's evened out. Up to that point it was way on Manning's side.

And disagree on the Wide Recievers. Wayne and Harrison are better than any two the Pats ever had.

The thing is that Peyton is making the Broncos WR's and TE's look that good too. What Peyton is doing in Denver is truly remarkable. He's basically turned them into the dominant Colts almost overnight.