rogers park bryan wrote:
#KillTheWin is so stupid.
It fits with what Bernsie said to Mac last week when he dismissed Mac's opinion that wins are relevant: "People who think that matters will all be dead soon."
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| 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=86744 |
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| Author: | CharlieFurbush [ Tue May 06, 2014 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
On today's show, the boys will discuss Bad Chicago Baseball, and members of Bad Chicago Baseball. Dan will take calls from Cub fans who say it's a shame Samardzija still hasn't gotten a win. He will declare these callers idiots, because wins are meaningless. This issue is not a debate. Dan will also talk about his kid's science project, and how bad the Pacers are. Read Joe Sheehan, then listen. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Tue May 06, 2014 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
This may be a dumb question, but do manager wins matter? What about other sports? I'd say that pitchers probably have more control of the outcome of a game than a coach does. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue May 06, 2014 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
#KillTheWin is so stupid. How bout #killthe"quality"start or amend it? 6ip and 3er is not that good. It never really was except in the steroid era |
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| Author: | Tad Queasy [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
rogers park bryan wrote: #KillTheWin is so stupid. It fits with what Bernsie said to Mac last week when he dismissed Mac's opinion that wins are relevant: "People who think that matters will all be dead soon."
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| Author: | hnd [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
i agree that too much is made about pitcher wins to an extent . however i also agree that its not a completely useless stat. i don't put as much value on it as purists do but whatever. |
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| Author: | Chisox [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Willie Mays is 83... Eighty-three. |
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| Author: | MattInTheCrown [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Chisox wrote: Willie Mays is 83... Eighty-three. So mad they missed that. So, yesterday Jason Bernstein asked his father to loan him $50. "$30," Dan replied, "why do you need to borrow $20?" |
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| Author: | Tad Queasy [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
What was the hubbub over the $5 bet? It sounded like Mac and Spiegel were getting exasperated with Bernsie over him not wanting to make a $5 bet about something. |
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| Author: | MattInTheCrown [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Tad Queasy wrote: What was the hubbub over the $5 bet? It sounded like Mac and Spiegel were getting exasperated with Bernsie over him not wanting to make a $5 bet about something. Which Blackhawk gets the empty-netter. Which, obviously, will probably just push anyways. Such a cheapass. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
I realize it is steeped in so many years of tradition but it is very different than other sports. Outside of basic talk about how MJ won this or 85 Bears win was all <insert defense star> other sports don't count only one guy as the winner of a team game. I really like to look at W_KL records and the other stuff but I am not some purist or anything. I guess they should just focus on team record and pitchers metrics if they want to evaluate a single pitcher at some point. For free agency or whatever. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Tad Queasy wrote: What was the hubbub over the $5 bet? It sounded like Mac and Spiegel were getting exasperated with Bernsie over him not wanting to make a $5 bet about something. Bernsie just being stubborn not to come off his personal no betting rule. That is fine to be that way but the $1 $5 office joke bet or whatever is a bit much to make such a big deal about. He came of sort of cheap. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
I share Dan's no-betting rule. I almost waived it in September to put $20 on the Ottawa Senators winning the Stanley Cup. I'm so glad I stuck to my convictions. Jesus Christ. |
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| Author: | redskingreg [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Dan is breaking bad on Hawk. Uh oh. |
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| Author: | Tad Queasy [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
pittmike wrote: Tad Queasy wrote: What was the hubbub over the $5 bet? It sounded like Mac and Spiegel were getting exasperated with Bernsie over him not wanting to make a $5 bet about something. Bernsie just being stubborn not to come off his personal no betting rule. That is fine to be that way but the $1 $5 office joke bet or whatever is a bit much to make such a big deal about. He came of sort of cheap. I remember a few years ago he was talking about buying expired or nearly expired meat from Costco and, IIRC, Goff basically said "What the hell is the matter with you? You make a good living. Splurge on meat that probably won't give you food poisoning." |
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| Author: | Minooka Meatball [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
pittmike wrote: Tad Queasy wrote: What was the hubbub over the $5 bet? It sounded like Mac and Spiegel were getting exasperated with Bernsie over him not wanting to make a $5 bet about something. Bernsie just being stubborn not to come off his personal no betting rule. That is fine to be that way but the $1 $5 office joke bet or whatever is a bit much to make such a big deal about. He came of sort of cheap. It was just such an excruciating, whiney stance he took. He could have just said "Oh, OK - why not?", and let it go; instead his subbornness added three extra minutes of bad radio. |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
IT'S WRONG. AND IT'S RACSIST Suck a dick, BernSTINE, you fucking moron. Baseball Social Crusader is on the march! He's got Hawk on the run! |
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| Author: | Minooka Meatball [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
redskingreg wrote: Dan is breaking bad on Hawk. Uh oh. Hawk may be wrong, but the first example Bernstein could come up with was Minnie fucking Minoso, from the same guy who ridicules trying to compare eras?
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Gotta love how he said that. Can I point out a particularly Latin player who played 17 seasons...  I didn't know there were degrees of Latin-ness.
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
FavreFan wrote: Gotta love how he said that. Can I point out a particularly Latin player who played 17 seasons... I didn't know there were degrees of Latin-ness.BIG. PUREBRED. LATIN.STUDS |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
I heard Hawk last night. I have no issue with his comments, but it was just a longer more detailed version of what Dusty got shit for |
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| Author: | Rod [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
bernstein is a guy who read Moneyball and spouts it as gospel. "Plate discipline is the right way. It's winning baseball." Let me point out two particularly undisciplined guys who were winners. Yogi Berra and Vlad Guerrerro. bernstein associates undisciplined with bad. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Im only half listening but did they really just spend the entire first hour on this? I haven't heard anything else come up. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: bernstein is a guy who read Moneyball and spouts it as gospel. "Plate discipline is the right way. It's winning baseball." And Billy Beane himself would laugh at that notion. So would Theo Epstein, Bill James, and even the Supercomputer. |
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| Author: | Meatballer [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: bernstein is a guy who read Moneyball and spouts it as gospel. "Plate discipline is the right way. It's winning baseball." Let me point out two particularly undisciplined guys who were winners. Yogi Berra and Vlad Guerrerro. bernstein associates undisciplined with bad. Moneyball is just scratching the surface for what advanced analytics can do in baseball. I think the mistake is attributing Bernstine's thinking to advanced analytics when he's lazy with advanced analytics. There are lots of good people out there that are good baseball minds that do their homework and use sabermetrics, but Bernstine is not one of them. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. |
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| Author: | Tad Queasy [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Why is Adam Harris doing updates at this time? I thought high school's still had classes for a few more weeks. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Meatballer wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: bernstein is a guy who read Moneyball and spouts it as gospel. "Plate discipline is the right way. It's winning baseball." Let me point out two particularly undisciplined guys who were winners. Yogi Berra and Vlad Guerrerro. bernstein associates undisciplined with bad. Moneyball is just scratching the surface for what advanced analytics can do in baseball. I think the mistake is attributing Bernstine's thinking to advanced analytics when he's lazy with advanced analytics. There are lots of good people out there that are good baseball minds that do their homework and use sabermetrics, but Bernstine is not one of them. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. bernstein and many others missed the real lesson of Moneyball. It wasnt that OBP is great. It's that it was undervalued. Now it's not. In fact, there are probably guys who dont walk much who are now undervalued. Dayan Viciedo maybe. Market inefficiencies is the core. Instead it became the cult of the walk. |
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| Author: | Hussra [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2013/12/ ... w-revealed |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Meatballer wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: bernstein is a guy who read Moneyball and spouts it as gospel. "Plate discipline is the right way. It's winning baseball." Let me point out two particularly undisciplined guys who were winners. Yogi Berra and Vlad Guerrerro. bernstein associates undisciplined with bad. Moneyball is just scratching the surface for what advanced analytics can do in baseball. I think the mistake is attributing Bernstine's thinking to advanced analytics when he's lazy with advanced analytics. There are lots of good people out there that are good baseball minds that do their homework and use sabermetrics, but Bernstine is not one of them. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. bernstein and many others missed the real lesson of Moneyball. It wasnt that OBP is great. It's that it was undervalued. Now it's not. In fact, there are probably guys who dont walk much who are now undervalued. Dayan Viciedo maybe. Market inefficiencies is the core. Instead it became the cult of the walk. True that. "One of the things over the course of the last 10 years that's gotten easier is the ability to more accurately measure a player's defensive abilities," Beane says. "Not just with us, but other teams are getting better at measuring it. We think we're getting better, and it reflected in our team defense last year. So in that sense, I would say, it's changed." |
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| Author: | Hussra [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
The teams that make the most use of advanced stats in the NBA (Houston) and MLB (Oakland) typically over-perform in the regular season but can't win in the playoffs. They're like a blackjack player relentlessly heeding a conservative martingale strategy and so they never lose big but never win big either? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 5/6: Pitching wins don't matter, you idiot |
Hussra wrote: The teams that make the most use of advanced stats in the NBA (Houston) and MLB (Oakland) typically over-perform in the regular season but can't win in the playoffs. They're like a blackjack player relentlessly heeding a conservative martingale strategy and so they never lose big but never win big either? The Red Sox used advanced stats in winning two World Series And before you post the Manny/Ortiz thing, just remember that Ortiz was signed mostly because of his ability to get on base. Anyway, advanced stats help. They are not magic beans though. |
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