Chicago Fanatics Message Board https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/ |
|
CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=93964 |
Page 1 of 2 |
Author: | billypootons [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
j/k, but they appear to be having issues restructing debt http://wineindustryinsight.com/?p=61765 Quote: The Clara Street Company, dba Cameron Hughes Wine (CHW) and Sales Pros, has been placed in receivership by the Superior Court of San Francisco at the request of its lender, Union Bank. John Hawkins of St. Helena was appointed receiver on March 24. Union Bank’s 128-page complaint alleges an extensive laundry list involving a $15.3 million credit line including late payments, being out out of compliance with various financial ratios and the failure to provide timely reports. Court documents indicate that CHW is not insolvent and had been close to finding a buyer for the company when the receivership was granted by the court. It is not known how the court’s action will affect the proposed deal. A March 27 declaration backed by volumes of financial data, Doug Rogers, Chief Operating Officer of the Clara Street Company financial data indicated that the company’s financial position was not helped by over-due trade payables. See correction regarding this. “From the beginning of 2013 through the end of 2014, Clara Street Co. has been subjected to ever changing, ever tightening borrowing restrictions placed upon it by Union Bank, and has substantially, if not fully, complied with them,” said Rogers in a March 6 declaration. |
Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
They need a better CFO. |
Author: | Spaulding [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Their biggest crime is that the wine tastes really bad. |
Author: | bigfan [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Isnt this Bernsies Buddy??? or has he quit the relationship? I do remember Danny was a shill for the guy who mixed the leftover swill from many others and repackaged it for 50%! Yummmm |
Author: | billypootons [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
bigfan wrote: Isnt this Bernsies Buddy??? or has he quit the relationship? I do remember Danny was a shill for the guy who mixed the leftover swill from many others and repackaged it for 50%! Yummmm Quote: Dan Bernstein @dan_bernstein @imacopyouidiot9 That's exactly the idea. Welcome to it. @chwine 6:41 PM - 11 May 2015 |
Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
billypootons wrote: “From the beginning of 2013 through the end of 2014, Clara Street Co. has been subjected to ever changing, ever tightening borrowing restrictions placed upon it by Union Bank, and has substantially, if not fully, complied with them,” said Rogers in a March 6 declaration. Boo-hoo. Welcome to 2010. Get a better CFO. |
Author: | bigfan [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
This is one of those North type relationships, that I am guessing came from Dannys wife. The event planners are a target for the win and liquor sales people, seeing they place a big number of orders. Odds are , that is where the connection came from. You want to take free stuff and pitch it on the radio, more power to you....however, that company that is running on fumes, I am not sending my money to them.... |
Author: | billypootons [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
bigfan wrote: This is one of those North type relationships, that I am guessing came from Dannys wife. The event planners are a target for the win and liquor sales people, seeing they place a big number of orders. Odds are , that is where the connection came from. You want to take free stuff and pitch it on the radio, more power to you....however, that company that is running on fumes, I am not sending my money to them.... they must be paying the score advertising bill on time or else DB wouldnt still be tweeting about it |
Author: | billypootons [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
i just noticed they left the microsoft office hidden formatting stuff on when they made their classy screen capture company statement... notice all the paragraph symbols and red underlines for misspelled words?? |
Author: | Beardown [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
I said it here when I heard the first commercial. I knew this was bullshit. $200 bottles of wine for $25? C'mon. |
Author: | bigfan [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Nothing says premium and ultra premium wines as a name like "ZIN YOUR FACE" |
Author: | Beardown [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
So you gotta figure Bernstein met this guy by himself and convinced Mitch and Zim to advertise it with him getting most of the money. I remember Bernstein saying in one of the commercials he sat down with this wine guy to discuss it. So Boob-gate and now this? 2 strikes. Zimmerman has good leverage now. |
Author: | billypootons [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Beardown wrote: So you gotta figure Bernstein met this guy by himself and convinced Mitch and Zim to advertise it with him getting most of the money. I remember Bernstein saying in one of the commercials he sat down with this wine guy to discuss it. So Boob-gate and now this? 2 strikes. Zimmerman has good leverage now. as always you manage to exaggerate things to the nth degree |
Author: | Beardown [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
I guarantee you that Bernstein ran to the bank to cash his last check from this operation once he got word of this. |
Author: | Beardown [ Mon May 11, 2015 11:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
billypootons wrote: Beardown wrote: So you gotta figure Bernstein met this guy by himself and convinced Mitch and Zim to advertise it with him getting most of the money. I remember Bernstein saying in one of the commercials he sat down with this wine guy to discuss it. So Boob-gate and now this? 2 strikes. Zimmerman has good leverage now. as always you manage to exaggerate things to the nth degree I was ahead of this. I said it when I first heard the commercial. I saved CSFMB posters a lot of money. They would have bought this cheap Ripple had it not been for me. I deserve a thank you. |
Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue May 12, 2015 12:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
misread this as "CH wins a bernstein backed ponzi scheme" and I got so excited about what I won. |
Author: | Beardown [ Tue May 12, 2015 12:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
I always thought to myself, if these wine companies make extra wine, why don't they just sell it at a discount if this guy can push it. Why do they need a middle man? You telling me restaurants/liquor stores across the country wouldn't gobble up the discount prices? It made no sense. Plus wine doesn't go bad. The older the vintage the better. So extra wine isn't a bad thing. Bernstein says it himself in his ads. "Put it in your cellar for 10 years!!!!" |
Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue May 12, 2015 12:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Beardown wrote: wine doesn't go bad. Of course it does. |
Author: | Beardown [ Tue May 12, 2015 12:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Curious Hair wrote: Beardown wrote: wine doesn't go bad. Of course it does. Ok. It can. But not if it's in the right climate. Just saying, if this secondary guy can sell it, why can't the primary guys? |
Author: | bigfan [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
A company in recievership is not solvent, so CH wines is correct. However, you would be CRAZY to extend them credit....unless you already have something invested in them. Start with WHY is the company in Recievership????? usually from a Lawsuit....at the same time a Recievership does mean someone has been appointed to run the joint...(Bebe) while under credit protetction. Plenty of times these businesses are bought, someone else takes over the debt or renegotiates it. But, the chance also exists that the bills never get paid....and I would guess those CBS bills are in that pile. Many times, those NEW Bills do paid that relate to daily operation. Its the guy who financed the machinery, or the buildout...etc... So, its not a Ponzi scheme, but if they offered you 30% returns on your money today, would you invest? Guessing not |
Author: | Kirkwood [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:33 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Quote: There is a glut of wine all over the world—an oversupply so significant that it's compelled Australian winemakers to plow up their vineyards, forced French producers to turn wines into ethanol and brought wealthy Napa vintners if not to their knees then to their bankers in search of refinance. The reasons are various—new vineyard plantings by ambitious producers, increased productivity at a time of plummeting demand, winemakers who have overleveraged their brands.
The bulk wine market—which encompasses everything from wine in the barrel to finished wines in unlabeled bottles, aka "shiners"—may absorb some of this excess but with prices as low as $1 a gallon, it's not going to help winemakers raise very much money, let alone make them rich. Except in the case of Cameron Hughes. Mr. Hughes takes the $100 California Cabernets that have gone begging for buyers and sells the very same wines under his own labels for $25 a bottle and less. He packages them in generic-looking bottles with names like Lot 164 Rutherford Cabernet and Lot 135 Syrah and sells them on his website and to retailers like Sam's Club and Costco in 38 states. I'd first heard about Mr. Hughes a few months ago when I attended a dinner in Chicago hosted by a prominent wine collector. Almost every wine was a first-growth Bordeaux, grand cru Burgundy or cult California Cabernet costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars. But when one of the dinner guests, a fellow named Chris Freemott, began talking about an $18 California Pinot Noir he'd recently tasted that was an "incredible value," I pulled up a chair. This was a wine I could actually afford. The name of the producer was unfamiliar to me: Cameron Hughes. "His Lot 142 Pinot Noir is amazing," Chris said. When I got home, I went to the Cameron Hughes website (www.chwine.com). I found the Pinot Noir that Chris had mentioned along with other Lot wines that included Pinot Noirs, Chardonnays, Syrahs and Cabernets. Mr. Hughes says that nondisclosure agreements with wineries prevent him from naming his sources, and each wine was accompanied by a "Cameron Confidential" hinting at its exalted—yet unnameable—origin that necessitated a number instead a name. "We sourced this wine from the vineyard of a famous Cabernet producer," was the Cameron come-on for a $22 bottle. Another Cab was from "an $85-a-bottle program" in Napa's Atlas Peak appellation. There were videos of the boyishly handsome Mr. Hughes, including one in which he declared, "This wine had a five-page nondisclosure agreement attached to it." He was speaking of Lot 146 the 2006 Diamond Mountain District Cabernet—the first time I'd ever heard a wine described in terms of its legal pedigree rather than its aromas and flavors. Of course, for cautious wine buyers this might pose a problem, particularly at a time of rampant wine fraud. Consumers have no way of knowing for sure if the sources of the wines are as Mr. Hughes has claimed, though when I consulted my friend Kim Landsman, a partner with the law firm Patterson, Belknap, Webb & Tyler who specializes in intellectual property, he told me that misrepresenting facts about a wine would leave a broker subject to civil "and probably criminal" liability. I decided to investigate the facts for myself, so I ordered a case of Cameron Hughes's Lot wines—Chardonnays, Pinot Noirs, Syrahs and Cabernets—and I invited some wine-knowledgable friends over for a tasting. We tried a wide range of wines and found the Cabernets particularly impressive: The 2007 Lot 164 Rutherford ($22) was lush and wonderfully aromatic and the 2007 Lot 143 Howell Mountain Cabernet, though a bit tight, was well structured. The 2006 Lot 146 Diamond Mountain Cabernet, meanwhile, was just monumental—rich, dense and substantial. There were also a couple of lovely Pinots (including the one that Chris Freemott liked) and a beautifully balanced 2007 Lot 135 Central Coast Syrah that cost an incredible $12 a bottle. In fact, with the exception of a mediocre Garnacha from Spain, it was clear that Mr. Hughes was getting good juice. But where was it coming from? I called up a few sources in the business to see what they knew. Andrew Murray, a Santa Barbara, Calif.-based producer of prestigious Syrahs under an eponymous label that sell for up to $35 a bottle, was willing to go on the record as the producer of the Lot 135 Syrah. "Even though I make more expensive wines I feel cool about helping Cameron release an affordable wine," he said, adding that the Lot 135 had helped him keep his crew busy, his bottling line active and helped him economically. Rob Lawson, a broker with the Napa Wine Company, a family-owned winery that sells its own wines as well as those of other wineries in the Valley and also serves as a custom crush facility, told me that he'd connected Mr. Hughes with some producers he knew that needed to sell wine. "There's great wine out there—wines that cost $20 to $30 a bottle that might have been in the $100 range a few years ago," he said. David Ramey, who makes top wines in both Napa and Sonoma under the Ramey Wine label and has sold off bulk wine from time to time, doesn't see it that way. "No producer makes money selling bulk wine," he asserted. "A guy like Hughes has a business model that revolves around other people's misfortunes. He's like a vulture feeding on carrion." When I caught up with Mr. Hughes himself on the phone, he had just returned home to San Francisco from a wine fair in Germany and would be leaving soon for Las Vegas. We made a date to meet for lunch in New York. Mr. Hughes didn't look like a carrion-feeder. In fact, my first impression of him, when we met for lunch at Sparks Steak House was of a low-key, unpretentious fellow. I'd chosen Sparks as our luncheon destination as much for its wine list as the steaks. The former features lots of California Cabernet producers, some of whom I thought might be selling to Mr. Hughes. Perhaps I could get him to divulge a name or two. (There's a history of that sort of thing at Sparks, after all: It's where mafia don Paul Castellano got gunned down for telling mob secrets to the feds.) Mr. Hughes grew up in Modesto, Calif., and his father was in the wine business, working in sales. He started his own wine brokerage business in October 2001. Mr. Hughes was remarkably cheerful even while narrating the painful early years of his wine brokerage company when he narrowly escaped bankruptcy and divorce. "By the summer of 2003 we were on life support," Mr. Hughes said matter-of-factly. "I owed hundreds of thousands of dollars to our backers, mostly friends of my father's," he added. It wasn't the right time and he didn't have the right wines ("a weird Cab-Merlot-Zin blend" was an early failure.) But Mr. Hughes made valuable connections and gradually learned about the underground pipeline of fine wine. "I met enough people to understand that there were small lots of high end wines available—wines that I could actually sell." And fortuitously for Mr. Hughes, the sea of excess wine was beginning to swell. There were amateur vintners who had gotten in over their heads, spent too much money building new wineries, grape growers who had bigger crops than they could sell and Hughes was there with the cash to buy their wines. "We're like a bank," he said. "They won't make money on me but I give them the cash that they need." And soon enough, the business began to turn around. By January 2004, Mr. Hughes sold his first wine—a Syrah worth $27 that he priced at $8.99 and sold at the Costco San Francisco store himself. Mr. Hughes followed up with a $7.99 Zinfandel from a prestigious Dry Creek producer. He hired more sales people to sell his wines and eventually convinced winemaker Sam Spencer to join the company. "Sam can taste through the thousands of tank samples or barrel samples and envision the finished wine." And he could tell if the wine that he and Mr. Hughes received turned out to be different from the wine that they had tasted and purchased, an important consideration—and a real fear—when buying bulk wine. Had they ever been fooled? "Once," said Mr. Hughes. "We had to turn a container of wine around and put it on a boat to China." Just then his phone rang. Mr. Hughes looked at the number. It was a wine broker trying to close "a very big deal, about 10,000 gallons of wine," said Mr. Hughes, who estimated he "moves about 250,000 gallons of wine a year." The call was from "a really big name," Mr. Hughes said. "A name you would know." "What about Screaming Eagle?" I asked of the legendarily hard-to-get Cabernet, the priciest on the list at $1,749.95 a bottle. "There's a guy who gets bulk wines from Screaming Eagle. No one knows who he is," Mr. Hughes said. Did he? Mr. Hughes shook his head. "No one does." (I later spoke with Andy Erickson, the Screaming Eagle winemaker, who confirmed that it "declassified" a certain amount of wine every year.) Whether or not the Hughes business model is sustainable remains to be seen. The wine business goes in cycles, after all. Mr. Hughes said he hopes to "get closer to the ground" and buy his own vineyards one day. (And to be part of the next glut cycle?) In the meantime, unlike the hapless Paul Castellano, Mr. Hughes has managed to keep his mouth shut and produce some really good wines at prices that are almost too good to be true. |
Author: | Kirkwood [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
His business model seems like a solid idea. He's essentially a pawn shop for wineries. He appears to have a solid product. He must've overexpanded and grown too fast. I also don't agree with his marketing strategy. Framing your wines as premium and ultrapremium but then calling them "lot 157", "lot 445" is contradictory (to me at least). Plus, advertising removes cachet from your brand let alone advertising on the radio station on the freaking SCORE. I don't drink wine, but my impression is wine is very stuffy. The story and prestige of the winery is half the battle in trying to convince consumers to purchase your grape juice. He's marketing his wines poorly. |
Author: | Franky T [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Guess he shouldn't have given out that free shipping promotion, because as Danny says, "shipping bottles of wine is really expensive". |
Author: | Smarmystein [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
With mentions of Cameron Hughes (who he knows!!!!) Attorneys...New York...Fine Food..and Really.Smart.People....Danny boy would probably read that article with the same vigor of a 15 year old reading a Penthouse Forum. |
Author: | No Clever Moniker [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Reading the article above I have to wonder why wouldn't CH suffer from the same market vagaries that affect the industry in general? He's working on the tail end of the market in buying up those that overproduce, so if vineyards are being plowed over or grapes turned into ethanol, wouldn't he eventually suffer from the reduction in supply? He either has to pay the market price to source what he needs or he has to do without. Its a similar problem in the craft beer industry where the demand for hops is outstripping the supply. Farmers/growers are trying to meet this demand in part by coming up with new strains of hops that are more resilient and with a shorter growth cycle. Brewers are going to different or lesser hops in combination with others to make their product. Having suffered through a supplier failing to hold to their contract for hops, what's to say that the same couldn't befall CH? A vintner decides they won't unload their excess but will use it to make a different blend? Could CH's short term success motivate vintners to follow with a similar long term approach? |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue May 12, 2015 9:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
My guess is this guy levered up and then the business had a hiccup of some sort. Maybe Costco told him to take a hike and he's sitting on a warehouse of wine he's got $5/bottle in and nobody wants it. |
Author: | Sarge [ Tue May 12, 2015 9:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
I'm guessing Mr Rocky Wirtz and the Wirtz Beverage Group, had something to say about this company siphoning off any liquor money they might have taken from ..... .....As Thornton Mellon said "I assure you, they (Wirtz Beverage Group) are not run by the boy scouts" |
Author: | sinicalypse [ Tue May 12, 2015 10:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Smarmystein wrote: With mentions of Cameron Hughes (who he knows!!!!) Attorneys...New York...Fine Food..and Really.Smart.People....Danny boy would probably read that article with the same vigor of a 15 year old reading a Penthouse Forum. Morpheus wrote: welcome to the real world, neo.
|
Author: | denisdman [ Tue May 12, 2015 10:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Nice quote on their website: “Mr. Hughes has managed to produce some really good wines at prices that are almost too good to be true.” One of the founders, is she as sweet as the wine? |
Author: | Luke Stuckenhymer [ Tue May 12, 2015 10:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: CH wines a bernstein backed ponzi scheme? |
Cameron Hughes Webio lol The wine was pretty fuckin good. I really can't see how their business model is sustainable though. |
Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ] |
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/ |