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Webby Webby
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27874		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bigfan [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Webby Webby
Webby, got about 5 minutes of the show this morning on the way to Santas.

If it was not so cold, I probably would have called you and set you straight on something

"There was no inside presence for the Bulls when Jordan was there" Mathew Weber

Is a Mike Northish statement. I am actually disappointed in you , thought you had more sports IQ.

I think J. Krause is one of the most overrated GM's of all time and if it was up to him, he would not have taken MJ, rather he would have taken Sam Bowie. This is because Krause always had size on his teams. Thus always "AN INSIDE PRESENCE" Maybe not Great, maybe not a dominant threat inside, but always big people creating an inside presence. Cartwright, Perdue, Scotty Williams, Levingston, Stacey King, Eddie Nealy and even Scottie provided inside presence. This was just in the first year. Nope None of them great, but could always have inisde presence. Then they added Chuck Nevitt, more inside Size. Not great, but at 7'4", the guy was a PRESENCE.

Then in the second three peat LUccccc! Buddha Edwards, Toni Kukoc, John Salley, Rodman, Caffey, Simpkins, Wennington, Bison Dele, Robert Cheif (Ok, he was a waste and never played, ever) and Joe Kleine

This has been one of my biggest problems with Paxson. He has drafted small since he has been here. Then when the season starts he says "we need to get bigger"

"YOU CAN'T TEACH SIZE"
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Not to mention, Jordan could take the ball from the top of the arc, dribble into the lane, and go for a layup or pull up 12 footer. He was an inside presence himself.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Hmm bigfan, did you forget about Horace?
Author:  bigfan [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
"he is dead to me.' Jerry Reinsdorf.

Horace was probably the best "THREAT" they had inside, outside of Cartwright in the first 8 minutes.

And I agree with Frank, MJ played big as well whenever needed.

Krauses Philosophy of just getting big people worked very well, when you have MJ.

Remember guys Krause drafted Oakley and Sellers, trying to get bigger.

and once again, I am not a Krause fan, as you must remember, he wasted Jordans first 7 years with his pathetic free agents.

But this is whole other long long discussion.
Author:  Wilson A2000 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Does naming every big man to play on the Bulls during the 90's really make your case? The point is that Jordan never had an all-star offensive presence from the 4 or 5 position that I can think of.
Author:  lipidquadcab [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Wilson A2000 wrote:
Does naming every big man to play on the Bulls during the 90's really make your case? The point is that Jordan never had an all-star offensive presence from the 4 or 5 position that I can think of.


Grant was an all star for one year after Jordan retired the first time...
Author:  Wilson A2000 [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
lipidquadcab wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:
Does naming every big man to play on the Bulls during the 90's really make your case? The point is that Jordan never had an all-star offensive presence from the 4 or 5 position that I can think of.


Grant was an all star for one year after Jordan retired the first time...


But not while Jordan was on the team
Author:  lipidquadcab [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Wilson A2000 wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:
Does naming every big man to play on the Bulls during the 90's really make your case? The point is that Jordan never had an all-star offensive presence from the 4 or 5 position that I can think of.


Grant was an all star for one year after Jordan retired the first time...


But not while Jordan was on the team


Yes, I know...just pointing that out...for whatever it's worth...
Author:  bigfan [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Wilson A2000 wrote:
Does naming every big man to play on the Bulls during the 90's really make your case? The point is that Jordan never had an all-star offensive presence from the 4 or 5 position that I can think of.


Actually that was NEVER the point Mr. Wilson. the point was INSIDE PRESENCE, which is so far far from an ALL STAR which you made the point.

And the guys I listed all played to create an INSIDE PRESENCE that can rebound, defend and block shots. Sure, very few of them had an offensive game on the blocks, but when you have that kind of size, other teams do need to pack it in, when you can send those guys to the boards.

Compared to EVERY SINGLE team Paxson has unveiled, the only size Pazson has brought in is Aaron Gray. Ben Wallace was nothing and Drew Gooden might be considered decent, but thats it over 7 years.
Author:  Wilson A2000 [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Being seven foot does not make you a presence. Jordan made them a presence. Those players had a slightly better skill set than the current roster, but Jordan made most of them what they were.

Paxson has drafted a number of big men: Tyrus, Joakim, Gray. The problem is that none of them are any good.
Author:  Jack Bauer [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
The point of this is Webber is a hack, and doesn't belong on a 500 watt station in Kalamazoo, MI let alone the Score.
Author:  bigfan [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
Wilson A2000 wrote:
Being seven foot does not make you a presence. Jordan made them a presence. Those players had a slightly better skill set than the current roster, but Jordan made most of them what they were.

Paxson has drafted a number of big men: Tyrus, Joakim, Gray. The problem is that none of them are any good.


1. When Jordan played, they did not have any technical foul against a zone defense, thus it was very common to play 2 or 3 guys over 6'10" against many teams that could not shoot.

2. The abundance of taller players is the basis of the triangle offense. It is passing the ball, moving the triangle until one of the 7 footers is in the post v. a 6'6" guy and then you have a great shot at scoring.

3. Of course Jordan made everyone better and the 6'10" guys the Bulls had were not great, but they played and created problems on their own.

4. Trust me, I am not a Krause fan. He picked up very few players for MJ to play with over 13 years. Scottie and Horace, yes we all know, but MJ created Scottie. Mentally and physically. Without MJ, Scottie is Lamar Odom.

5. The shear number of guys the Bulls could bring in that brought size to the table created a PRESENCE that could not totally ignored or they would own the Boards and put back O Boards all night.

It's the one of the 2 things I give Krause credit for. The other was that he never talked about any deal.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Webby Webby
bigfan wrote:
1. When Jordan played, they did not have any technical foul against a zone defense, thus it was very common to play 2 or 3 guys over 6'10" against many teams that could not shoot.


No, there was an illegal zone defense technical foul call until the post-Jordan era IIRC

bigfan wrote:
2. The abundance of taller players is the basis of the triangle offense. It is passing the ball, moving the triangle until one of the 7 footers is in the post v. a 6'6" guy and then you have a great shot at scoring.


Of course, when the triangle really worked, it was because the 'inside presence' of which you speak got so flustered with the ball in their hands(and idiot defenders sagged back on them) all they could do was give the ball back to MJ.

----But Cartwright WAS the most dominant scoring big man in the NBA for the first 6-8 minutes, wasn't he. Talk about memories. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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