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Coach vs. Duerson
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Author:  Coast2Coast [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Coach vs. Duerson
A few take-aways...

A guy with the facts of a situation will usually out-argue someone who relies on his opinions, beliefs and heresay.

If you are going to hold an on-air debate, the moderator should ensure each party is allowed to speak. Duerson may be smart, but he is one rude MFer. Speaking over the Coach and interrupting him continuously was pretty bush league of him. MJH deserves the blame for this, though. Allowing Duerson to speak over the Coach and interrupt him ruined what could have been a decent debate. I don't blame the Coach for walking. MJH and Duerson didn't respect him enough to allow him time to speak more than a sentence or two before Duerson interrupted him.

This was a good reminder why shout shows suck.
Author:  sportsfan [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Duerson calling Mac, Jurko was funny. :D
Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it hurts his stance that he talks about what Mike Ditka said after the strike. What he said was probably a mistake at the time, but it doesn't make him more or less right on this matter.
Author:  Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree basically. But, the Coach really didn't have facts on his side it seems. His 401k money should be available to him to borrow or take hardship.

If DA COATCH was simply saying they are trying to go to corporations to get the money, that would have been the angle to push. So, yeah, I guess I would have like to have heard more from the Coach.

If that is the case, then Duerson is trying to avoid the PR damage of outside organizations taking care of their business. The benefits of the people should come before PR. But, I guess we'll never hear if that was the argument Ditka was trying to (going to) make.

Does anyone else think it's bush league of DD to bring up the specific dollars of Ditka and others?
Author:  THE WIND SOCK [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:49 pm ]
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Millionaries fighing over billions!! My heart bleeds for them. I do think thier is a personal thing from the 87 Bears and Mike's comments.
Author:  Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:49 pm ]
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I would say hardly any of those guys are millionaires.
Author:  BlackSox [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:50 pm ]
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Duerson sounds like he has some serious personal issues with Da Coach.

Makes for good radio, but I don't know what that has to do with the issue at hand.
Author:  BlackSox [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Does anyone else think it's bush league of DD to bring up the specific dollars of Ditka and others?


I do.

Thought it was funny when Da Coach said "I know some personal stuff about you, but you don't hear me bringing it up." Heh.
Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion, Dave Duerson sounds like he is reading off some talking points that the NFLPA lawyers have given him.

Now with the personal attacks, such as blaming Ditka for costing 2 more super bowls, really make me not care what he has to say. He sounds like a bitter old man.
Author:  Glendale Heights Joe [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlackSox wrote:
Duerson sounds like he has some serious personal issues with Da Coach.

Makes for good radio, but I don't know what that has to do with the issue at hand.


He's bitter that Ditka cut him in 1990. When Ditka mentioned Duerson's flaws, I wonder if he was referring to the fact that he was accused of being a wife beater.

Whatever. Duerson is an idiot.
Author:  NotInTheBiz [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
There was no need for DD to quote names/actual $$

DD is coming from the point of law. As stated in the article in the Trib (BTW it wasn't today Mac) they can only do what is allowed under ERISA.

Ditka may be passionate about these guys, but he is wrong.
Author:  buryman [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
There it is, Ditka could have laid the wife beater card and I'm surprised he didn't? I don't feel sorry for poeple who don't do their homework on their own retirement or save on their own. Stupid to depend on someone else for your well being down the road.
Author:  HappyHour Jason [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:58 pm ]
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Wife beaters are bad.
That certainly was interesting radio when they weren't yelling.
Author:  W_Z [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Duerson using 'irregardless' twice made me cringe.

other than that, it was good radio. but it would have been better if Ditka could have gotten a word in edgewise; once Duerson started talking (or pontificating, rather?), he wouldn't get off the soap box.
Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
HappyHour Jason wrote:
Wife beaters are bad.


They are also currently out of style. I recommend a button down t-shirt with a popped collar.
Author:  enigma [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Now with the personal attacks, such as blaming Ditka for costing 2 more super bowls, really make me not care what he has to say. He sounds like a bitter old man.


So I guess it's Ditka's fault that McMahon was hurt in 86, or that the defense blew a 14-0 lead and McMahon threw 3 interceptions in the '87 playoff loss.

If I remember correctly, Duerson was not liked by Buddy Ryan, but Ditka supported him in'85. Duerson is a pud.
Author:  doug - evergreen park [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
good radio when you could hear them...
Author:  NotInTheBiz [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:05 pm ]
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BTW, kudos to the boys for getting these 2 on. It was topical, recent, could have been great and it beats the shit out of talking about steriods with Joe Morgan (as DP did, again, today)
Author:  buryman [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:06 pm ]
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Don't forget Joe Morgan's great thoughts on the NBA Playoffs
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:09 pm ]
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Well, I guess there's another radio show that Ditka will not come on in the future. :roll:

I wish Duerson would have allowed a debate but once Ditka called all of Duerson's points 'intellectual' facts, I knew it was over.
Author:  darkcloud07 [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
the problem i got form what DD was saying is that he started to focus on what can be done for the players today and in the future when they retire. That is great and all but it is not the matter at hand. DD just kept interupting everyone giving me the impression that he thought what he had to say was more important then anyone else.
Author:  Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, Coach didn't come off looking very good. But, I don't think he really made his point.

Duerson was just trying to make Ditka look bad. The parameters of the argument were never really laid out as to what Ditka had planned to do with raising money for additional benefits.

I would have liked to hear Duerson explain how getting additional benefits for retired players would be a bad thing.
Author:  darkcloud07 [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
He would say it was bad because outside sources were behind it, not the all-powerful NFLPA. Good Deed<Bad PR end o story.
Author:  The Gridiron Assassin [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"W_Z"
Duerson using 'irregardless' twice made me cringe.


That Notre Dame education may fly at the sausage factory, but not on ESPN1000.

It's clear that Ditka is more emotional about this issue. He's not arguing that the NFPLA hasn't done 'anything' they simply haven't done enough.

And personally, I don't give a crap how much money the NFL/NFLPA allocate for retired players - get more - that's the bottom line.

I hope all the current Hall of Famers boycott the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies this year, just to shove it up the league's rectal duct - and leave the entire stage for Michael Irvin's ego.

Ditka came off as a gruff philanthropist, Duerson came off as a smug puppet for management, or in this case the union.
Author:  darkcloud07 [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:29 pm ]
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Irvin's ego would need the whole stage anyway
Author:  Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"We've wanted to save these guys in need their dignity, but enough is enough," Upshaw told ESPN. "When they keep calling us out, they better be sure of the facts. ... We do our job. We meet their needs."


While I doubt the veracity of this statement, irregardless, is it wrong to exceed their needs?

Well, DA COATCH doesn't think so!

COOOOOOOAAAAAAAAATTTTTCCHHHHHHH!!!!
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Gridiron Assassin wrote:
Quote:
"W_Z"
Duerson using 'irregardless' twice made me cringe.


And personally, I don't give a crap how much money the NFL/NFLPA allocate for retired players - get more - that's the bottom line.


Unfortunately to get more money, Duerson and the rest of the NFLPA have to work within the context of a union and get agreement from the union body. Having grown up in a union family, in today's society, people want the money now and not later. They will worry about tomorrow when it happens.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
duerson calling mac "jurko" was damn funny.

does anyone really think da coach had to catch a plane?
Author:  NotInTheBiz [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:40 pm ]
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No doubt to attend a fund raiser for the HOF players
Author:  Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:42 pm ]
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
does anyone really think da coach had to catch a plane?


Of course not.

DA COATCH hath no need for manmade aerial craft. He need only a mere thought to be transported to his destination.
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