Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - John Clayton: "Vince Young wins games"

Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)...

WestmontMike wrote:

Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)...

Is he though (asking honestly)? Looks like they have a pretty good D and running game to help him out.
It seems to me that Grossman is penalized because the Bears have a great defense, and his strong efforts weren't needed in wins because the D dominated.

Bulldog Scott wrote:

Which 9?

The game they lost 14-13 to the Colts, the game against the redskins, the game against houston where he had that big run at the end of the game, the ravens game, the eagles game, the giants game, and the colts game late in the year they won, 20-17, and a couple other games i dont remember which, I think one was against JAX

Nas wrote:

Can someone explain to me the big thing about Grossman's rating in the 4th quarter? That's the dumbest talking point I've heard. Most of the games were already over in the 4th quarter last year. Only 5 games come to mind that were decided by his play and 3 of those were in the playoffs. He wet the bed against the Patriots and he made the plays against the Bucs to win that game last year. He made key throws in the Seahawks game and threw a touchdown agaisnt the Saints that ended that game. He also threw a touchdown in the SB that ended that game. Unfortunately it was to the Colts.

I'm still looking for some help with this.

FavreFan wrote:

Bulldog Scott wrote:

Which 9?

If you don't remember which games you watched, how do you know that you watched them? It seems that if you knew that you watched exactly 9 games of Vince Young's last year, you would know which exact 9.

Nas wrote:

I'm still looking for some help with this.

WestmontMike wrote:

Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)...

torch! wrote:

was Clayton saying that the cheating would make Belicheck be seen in a positive light, that he wants to win that much more (if I heard right).

You heard it right. I laughed when I heard it. I guess if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.

VY is going to deflate this year. It's the NFL, the "it" factor will get him to a point, but his skill and talent as a passer will define him. Just look at Vick, for years all we heard was that he was the greatest thing to ever grace the field. But his inability to throw and his addiction to killing dogs finally caught up with him..

VY is overhyped by the media, just like Vick.

Thats a bad comparison. Vick was always over-rated and never won anything, meanwhile VY carried an obviously inferior Texas team over USC in one of the more unforgettable football games in recent memory.

FavreFan wrote:

How was it that Texas was "obviously inferior"? I watched 9 of their games that year, and they were pretty damn good.

And Vick carried an "obviously inferior" Virginia Tech squad from obscurity to the National Title game in his red shirt freshmen year. That ain't too bad.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	John Clayton: "Vince Young wins games"
He used that statement to explain why he is the best of his draft class. Why does VY get a free pass for the mistakes he makes with the national media, but Grossman is a punching bag?

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:16 pm ]
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Cuz Vince Young just wins games. He makes great plays with the game on the line, when Rex had a horrible qb rating and was obviously ratlled many times in the 4th quarter. When you watch Vince Young you can tell he has that certain "it".

Author:	WestmontMike [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:17 pm ]
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Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)...and Rex is just along for the ride (exaggeration; but not really)

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:44 pm ]
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WestmontMike wrote: Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)... Is he though (asking honestly)? Looks like they have a pretty good D and running game to help him out. It seems to me that Grossman is penalized because the Bears have a great defense, and his strong efforts weren't needed in wins because the D dominated.

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Bulldog Scott wrote: WestmontMike wrote: Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)... Is he though (asking honestly)? Looks like they have a pretty good D and running game to help him out. It seems to me that Grossman is penalized because the Bears have a great defense, and his strong efforts weren't needed in wins because the D dominated. I watched 9 of the games last year and he makes huge plays when it really matters. Hes one of those really clutch players that seems to have a knack for always coming up with enough to win. The Houston game stands out last year but many games could fall under that label.

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Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Which 9?

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Bulldog Scott wrote: Which 9? The game they lost 14-13 to the Colts, the game against the redskins, the game against houston where he had that big run at the end of the game, the ravens game, the eagles game, the giants game, and the colts game late in the year they won, 20-17, and a couple other games i dont remember which, I think one was against JAX

Author:	Irish Boy [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:37 pm ]
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Vince Young itism is going to come to a screeching halt this week and this season in general. Trust me on this. And unfortunately for VY, the longer he continues winning the way he is (with bad mechanics, side arm throwing, etc) the worse it's going to be when Tennessee hits the skids.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:38 pm ]
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FavreFan wrote: Bulldog Scott wrote: Which 9? The game they lost 14-13 to the Colts, the game against the redskins, the game against houston where he had that big run at the end of the game, the ravens game, the eagles game, the giants game, and the colts game late in the year they won, 20-17, and a couple other games i dont remember which, I think one was against JAX If you don't remember which games you watched, how do you know that you watched them? It seems that if you knew that you watched exactly 9 games of Vince Young's last year, you would know which exact 9.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:41 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Nas wrote: Can someone explain to me the big thing about Grossman's rating in the 4th quarter? That's the dumbest talking point I've heard. Most of the games were already over in the 4th quarter last year. Only 5 games come to mind that were decided by his play and 3 of those were in the playoffs. He wet the bed against the Patriots and he made the plays against the Bucs to win that game last year. He made key throws in the Seahawks game and threw a touchdown agaisnt the Saints that ended that game. He also threw a touchdown in the SB that ended that game. Unfortunately it was to the Colts. I'm still looking for some help with this. It's just another excuse to rail on him. Sometimes, it is warranted.

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Bulldog Scott wrote: FavreFan wrote: Bulldog Scott wrote: Which 9? The game they lost 14-13 to the Colts, the game against the redskins, the game against houston where he had that big run at the end of the game, the ravens game, the eagles game, the giants game, and the colts game late in the year they won, 20-17, and a couple other games i dont remember which, I think one was against JAX If you don't remember which games you watched, how do you know that you watched them? It seems that if you knew that you watched exactly 9 games of Vince Young's last year, you would know which exact 9. I dont know why you seem to make such a big deal about this, thats what I remember off hand. Due to some reasons Darkside could allude to I dont have the best memory, but I am a sports fanatic and thats the best I could do to recollect, but either way Im assuming thats more Titans games than most on this particular forum watched. Im just making an observation and opinion based on what I can remember. I remember the defense and running game being vastly underrated, but also VY making plays when it really mattered, with the game often on the line. Its not a coincedence that they immediatey went on a 7-3 run or whatever it was last year after he started, just like I dont find it to surprising he beat Jacksonville this past weekend. The guy has a great knack for winning games when the pressure is on in the 4th quarter.

Author:	BD [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:23 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Nas wrote: Can someone explain to me the big thing about Grossman's rating in the 4th quarter? That's the dumbest talking point I've heard. Most of the games were already over in the 4th quarter last year. Only 5 games come to mind that were decided by his play and 3 of those were in the playoffs. He wet the bed against the Patriots and he made the plays against the Bucs to win that game last year. He made key throws in the Seahawks game and threw a touchdown agaisnt the Saints that ended that game. He also threw a touchdown in the SB that ended that game. Unfortunately it was to the Colts. I'm still looking for some help with this. The answer is that it's a damning stat, but sometimes stats lie. If you just saw that number, you'd think he was horrible in 4th quarters, but what it doesn't tell you is that often last year, the game was over after 3 quarters, and the Bears shut their offense down. He also had games where he didn't play well in the 4th quarter like the NE game.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Bulldog Scott wrote: WestmontMike wrote: Maybe because Vince Young is at the top of the list for reasons why the Titans win (when they win)... Is he though (asking honestly)? Looks like they have a pretty good D and running game to help him out. It seems to me that Grossman is penalized because the Bears have a great defense, and his strong efforts weren't needed in wins because the D dominated. I'm just speculating really... but I guess the best way to compare it is by imagining how the Titans would do w/Rex as their quarterback and Vince as the Bears QB. I honestly don't think this would really work our for either team. Currently, Vince makes a below average team average and Rex is on a great team and has no effect on it. If they switched places, the Titans would likely maintain their below average status and the Bears wouldn't know what to do with Vince Young. Rex simply has the expectations that go along with being on a Super Bowl caliber team and Vince Young is on a team that's happy to be in contention for the playoffs. Not a fair comparison based on their respective teams or styles but I don't think the criticisms are too far off.

Author:	torch! [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:
If we're talking record we can throw Kyle Orton into the conversation. The one thing that made me go 'huh?' was Clayton saying that the cheating would make Belicheck be seen in a positive light, that he wants to win that much more (if I heard right). Sounded like something the East Coast network would force him to say. Other than that, good segment

Author:	doug - evergreen park [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:06 pm ]
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Jay Clay also said last week that Ronnie Brown will be the stud of the Dolphins backfield.

Author:	Missed a Little [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:08 am ]
Post subject:
All I am doing is comparing how they are both over hyped by the media. Last time I checked, Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Ken Dorsey, they were all pretty good college QB's. Im not comparing their race or talent. They are BOTH overhyped for what they have accomplished in the NFL, I really could care less what he did in college. Talk to me in 5 months.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Todays game against the Colts showed what I have been saying. They start the last drive a minute and a half left on the clock at their own 20. VY makes plays the whole drive to get them in Colts territory, then Brandon Jones drops an easily catchable ball on the Colts 30 yd line. If he catches that then it probably is 23-22 Titans win, with VY making 4-5 big plays with the game on the line.

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Author:	FavreFan [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:27 am ]
Post subject:
Nas wrote: torch! wrote: was Clayton saying that the cheating would make Belicheck be seen in a positive light, that he wants to win that much more (if I heard right). You heard it right. I laughed when I heard it. I guess if you ain't cheating you ain't trying. thats stupid as hell, Im surprised he said that, I usually respect his opinions and knowledge but theres already been a huge backlash against him and the Patriots. Some moron suggested they be banned from the playoffs for 2 years for this, thats probably the biggest over-reaction I have heard. The dumbest reaction I have heard, which is not surprising to us, is from Sean Salisbury. He said the crime wasnt a big deal whatsoever and it made no impact on the games. What a dumb statement, Belichick would not risk having his name and franchise tainted by cheating if it didnt make any difference whatsoever. What a douche.

Author:	Missed a Little [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:42 am ]
Post subject:
VY is going to deflate this year. It's the NFL, the "it" factor will get him to a point, but his skill and talent as a passer will define him. Just look at Vick, for years all we heard was that he was the greatest thing to ever grace the field. But his inability to throw and his addiction to killing dogs finally caught up with him.. VY is overhyped by the media, just like Vick.

Author:	FavreFan [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Missed a little wrote: VY is going to deflate this year. It's the NFL, the "it" factor will get him to a point, but his skill and talent as a passer will define him. Just look at Vick, for years all we heard was that he was the greatest thing to ever grace the field. But his inability to throw and his addiction to killing dogs finally caught up with him.. VY is overhyped by the media, just like Vick. Thats a bad comparison. Vick was always over-rated and never won anything, meanwhile VY carried an obviously inferior Texas team over USC in one of the more unforgettable football games in recent memory. He always make plays with the game on the line, and all his teammates rave about his leadership ability. The only thing him and Vick have in common is being a black running QB, but a big difference is VY is a throw first QB and Vick wasnt. He still has work to do on his passing game, but so does Leinart, Cutler, and all second year QBs. Theres really not many similarities between the two

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:02 pm ]
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FavreFan wrote: Thats a bad comparison. Vick was always over-rated and never won anything, meanwhile VY carried an obviously inferior Texas team over USC in one of the more unforgettable football games in recent memory. How was it that Texas was "obviously inferior"? I watched 9 of their games that year, and they were pretty damn good.

Author:	FavreFan [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:08 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: FavreFan wrote: Thats a bad comparison. Vick was always over-rated and never won anything, meanwhile VY carried an obviously inferior Texas team over USC in one of the more unforgettable football games in recent memory. How was it that Texas was "obviously inferior"? I watched 9 of their games that year, and they were pretty damn good. Wow, I mean that Texas team was damn good but that USC team was clearly better at almost every position. VY had the game of his life and if Pete Carroll wasnt retarded and gave Reggie the ball more, they probably win that game despite VY's incredible game. Im not sure anybody would really argue that besides the QB position, the teams were equal.

Author:	FavreFan [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:10 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: And Vick carried an "obviously inferior" Virginia Tech squad from obscurity to the National Title game in his red shirt freshmen year. That ain't too bad. Yeah and they got trounced, my point being that Vick has never showed anything when the games really matter. He won a blowout @ Lambeau in the playoffs and thats about it. When it comes to their record as winners, VY still has a long way to go but hes showed he clearly turnes his game into another gear when the game is on the line, Im not sure anyone watching Vick has thought the same thing, except for that incredible OT run against the Vikings.