Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - Griese no better than Grossman?

At least Rex was a threat to make a big play. Griese still overthrows guys (he puts it in the defenders chest though) and he has a very slow release. Did I mention he has a weak arm? .

Griese is bad Mike. He is smarter than Grossman mainly because he has been in the league for 10 years and has played nearly 100 games. Other than that there isn't anything he can do with a football that Rex can't. When you are checking down on 90% of your passes you will have a high completion percentage and therefore have a high QB rating. A 5 year old has a better arm than that guy. He has been the same player his whole career. He has 9 turnovers in 3 games and he is a veteran. At least Rex was a threat to make a big play. Griese still overthrows guys (he puts it in the defenders chest though) and he has a very slow release. Did I mention he has a weak arm? They might as well let Orton or Grossman play and do the same thing. At least they can blame it on experience. If you've watched the past 3 games you can't honestly say Griese is better than any other quarterback on the Bears team.

Griese had pretty good luck on Sunday against the Vikes with all 3 of his TDs.
TD 1: Winfield falls down, Berrian is wide open.
TD 2: The pass right before the TD to Moose, Griese hits a Vikes defender right in the numbers before he inexplicably drops it.
TD 3: Griese floats a dump pass over AP's head (badly) and was very nearly picked again before the bomb to Hester.

Dude the Bears were 2nd in scoring with Rex as quarterback last year. Their offense scored over 30 touchdowns. Many of Griese's points have come from defensive take aways and because teams won't kick to Hester. As it stands now Griese has more turnovers than he does touchdowns. None of his turnovers can be attributed to receivers quitting on routes and he has been give a lot of time to pass because he is usually in the shotgun. There were a lot of fans that wanted Rex to sit even though he had 23 touchdowns and 17 interceptions going into the last game of the season. This savior Griese has now thrown 7 touchdowns and 6 interceptions but you guys think he is doing a good job. He's had a couple (this is for you Doug :wink:

) easy picks dropped too.

Griese has thrown more red zone interceptions this year than he has thrown touchdowns.

Bulldog Scott wrote:

And yet I don't think all three are converted with Rex at QB. For all we know Rex wouldn't haven't even seen them because he was locked in on someone else or fell on his ass or fumbled the snap.

According to Football Outsiders, the Bears have improved since week 3 (after which Grossman was benched) from the 32 best offense in the league to the 31st. Of course, they have also faced easier defenses, and San Francisco (who is now 32nd) has absolutely collapsed offensively in a way that probably would have resulted in Chicago being ranked 31st anyway.

the Bears were 2nd in scoring with Rex as quarterback last year.

The D showed some teeth and pride at the end of the Vikings game.

He's more valuable to the Bears scheme than Bob Sanders is to the Colts.

Mustang Rob wrote:

He's more valuable to the Bears scheme than Bob Sanders is to the Colts.

I know of somebody that would argue with you on that one. You doggone right Bob Sanders is the best player ever.

Pound for pound ana ana straight up ana ana you doggone right that Bob Sanders will play punch you in the mouth football. I'm not in the feel good business.

Woodridge Ryan wrote:

Bulldog Scott wrote:

And yet I don't think all three are converted with Rex at QB. For all we know Rex wouldn't haven't even seen them because he was locked in on someone else or fell on his ass or fumbled the snap.

Yeah, probably. I just don't think Griese's as good as his numbers suggest. He's been better than Rex this year, though. Either way, they both suck.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Griese no better than Grossman?
Mac, I feel your pain as a Bears fan, but I can't agree with you on this one. Brian Griese is clearly a better option at quarterback than Rex Grossman. He's not a great quarterback, but I can't believe you'd can honestly think he's no better than Rex. Numbers aren't everything, but take a look at these for second: QB rating Comp % Yards TDs INTs Sacked Fum FumL Brian Griese '07 82.00 61.5 881 7 6 9 3 1 Rex Grossman '07 45.20 52.8 500 1 6 9 1 0 In three games as the Bears starter, after spending all of last year not playing and spending all off-season knowing that he wouldn't start and going 3 games into this season not starting AND I'm guessing not getting much or any practice time with the first team and probably not nearly as much coaching as Grossman....(damn that's a long sentence)...he's done the following: passed for more yards over a 3-game span than Grossman ever has in his NFL career, thrown for as many TDs over a 3-game span as Grossman ever has in his NFL career, and only once ever over a 3-game span has Grossman had a higher completion percentage. Add that to the fact that Rex's 3 games this year coincided with the Bears' 3 best defensive performances (2 at least, the Dallas game started well and fell apart) and Griese's with the 3 worst. The running game and offensive line have consistently sucked over the first 6 games and the defense has only gotten more injured and worse. Don't mistake this for me saying that I think that Brian Griese is the future for the Bears at quarterback, but he's definitely the answer for '07. The way I look at it, I just ask myself 2 questions: When the Bears came onto the field with Grossman at quarterback, do you think they're gonna score? No, I'd be impressed with a first down When the Bears come onto the field with Griese at quarterback, do you think they're gonna score? Maybe Sad, but good enough for this year!!

Author:	BD [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:15 pm ]
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I think Griese is an average QB. He does throw his share of INT's, and he's not going to win many games on his shoulders, but he generally is going to complete 60-65% of his passes, and can manage an offense. I don't think the Bears will be winning a Super Bowl with him given the decline of their defense, but I wouldn't put him on Grossman's level of play, which was generally poor, game in and game out since the mid-way point of last season.

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:48 pm ]
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Nas wrote: At least Rex was a threat to make a big play. Griese still overthrows guys (he puts it in the defenders chest though) and he has a very slow release. Did I mention he has a weak arm? . [quote="Nas"]A 5 year old has a better arm than that guy.quote] So a 5 yr old that overthrows guys, has a weak arm, and cant make a big play like Rex could deliver that football to Hester yesterday?

Author:	BD [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:52 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Griese is bad Mike. He is smarter than Grossman mainly because he has been in the league for 10 years and has played nearly 100 games. Other than that there isn't anything he can do with a football that Rex can't. When you are checking down on 90% of your passes you will have a high completion percentage and therefore have a high QB rating. A 5 year old has a better arm than that guy. He has been the same player his whole career. He has 9 turnovers in 3 games and he is a veteran. At least Rex was a threat to make a big play. Griese still overthrows guys (he puts it in the defenders chest though) and he has a very slow release. Did I mention he has a weak arm? They might as well let Orton or Grossman play and do the same thing. At least they can blame it on experience. If you've watched the past 3 games you can't honestly say Griese is better than any other quarterback on the Bears team. That was true early on, but he was more a threat for a big play for the opposing defense most of the time.

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:04 pm ]
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Im not sure what the argument here is. Every person on here has to agree on at least 2 things, becuase they are painfully obvious at this point. 1.)There is absolutely no way you can make a logical argument that Rex is a better QB than Griese right now. 2/)Griese is average at best. He is not the worst starter in the NFL but hes definitely below average to average.

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Author:	ExileOnDamen [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:30 pm ]
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3 games each: Griese, 6 picks / 122 attempts, ~ 1 every 20 attempts. Grossman, 6 picks / 89 attempts. ~ 1 every 14 attempts. You put the ball up 50 times a game, a couple of em are going to end up in the wrong team's hands, especially with the butterfinger receivers out there today.

Author:	Thug [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:09 am ]
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Griese proved (at least to me) that he's got a better arm then previously thought. And that he's more then just a game manager. He's brought the Bears back from 14 pts down the last 2 weeks.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:14 am ]
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this debate is worthless. even if they had dan marino or johnny unitas in thier prime QB'ing this team, with that defense they're gonna be lucky to go 6-10/7-9.

Author:	Gloopan Kuratz [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:53 am ]
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Griese is as clueless in the pocket as Grossman. He doesn't "feel" the rush at all.

Author:	Thug [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:24 am ]
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I have the feeling that if Rex or Griese threw a football up your ass from 40 yards away 90% of you would still say both QB's suck. Not every player can be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Hell here's the short list of elite players Brady Manning Peterson Gates LT (maybe, off to slow start) Everyone else is somewhere between good and sucksville.

Author:	My_name_1s_MUD [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:26 am ]
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We'll lend the Bears CJ Bacher for Sunday... we just need him back by next Saturday.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:43 am ]
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Nas wrote: Griese is bad Mike. He is smarter than Grossman mainly because he has been in the league for 10 years and has played nearly 100 games. Other than that there isn't anything he can do with a football that Rex can't. When you are checking down on 90% of your passes you will have a high completion percentage and therefore have a high QB rating. A 5 year old has a better arm than that guy. He has been the same player his whole career. He has 9 turnovers in 3 games and he is a veteran. At least Rex was a threat to make a big play. Griese still overthrows guys (he puts it in the defenders chest though) and he has a very slow release. Did I mention he has a weak arm? They might as well let Orton or Grossman play and do the same thing. At least they can blame it on experience. If you've watched the past 3 games you can't honestly say Griese is better than any other quarterback on the Bears team. I thought I already said that I don't think Griese's "good"...I just said that he's better than Grossman. That certainly doesn't equate to a "good" rating in my book. After considering all the factors for this comparison I think it's pretty clear. No need to say that Rex can do more than Griese can when that's not the problem. The probelm is that he DOESN'T do more and he doesn't make plays. Make a list of all the guys with great arms that sucked and a list of guys with weak arms that were great and you'll come to one conclusion...arm strength in overrated. ...If I watched the past 3 games?...IF I watched the past 3 games? You think I'd make this comparison without watching the games? You would be incorrect in that assumption. However you want to look at it, the Bears occassionally score points with Griese at quarterback and they don't with Grossman at quarterback. I'd have no problem if they decide to let Orton run the offense & if he leads the team to a couple TDs a game, then he'll also probably be better than Grossman. And if you could please forward the name and contact information of the 5 year old that has a better arm than Griese to Halas Hall it would be much appreciated.

Author:	Mustang Rob [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 pm ]
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Total Defense ratings: KC - 10 Dal - 11 SD - 14 Det - 29 GB - 13 Min - 25 They both suck, but so far this season Grossman played against tougher defenses.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:56 pm ]
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Nas, So Griese hasn't greatly outplayed Grossman this year? Face it, Griese was an upgrade over Grossman. Grossman didn't make a single throw this year that looked as good as the Hester TD pass. Griese played very little last year, and didn't have the luxury of playing with the first team for the whole preseason, and he is outperforming Grossman. Grossman through 3 games 1 TD, 6 INT Griese through 3 games 7 TD, 6 INT Grossman had 3 games of throwing under 200 yards Griese has 3 games throwing over 200 yards, and one where he threw for 381 yards. How do you throw for 381 yards if you are just relying on the defensive takeaways? You are right that Griese has made mistakes, but he is an upgrade over Grossman. Grossman had his shot for 22 games and failed. The hot start of last year wasn't coming back. It is over Nas. Give it up.

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Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:59 pm ]
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Griese had pretty good luck on Sunday against the Vikes with all 3 of his TDs. TD 1: Winfield falls down, Berrian is wide open. TD 2: The pass right before the TD to Moose, Griese hits a Vikes defender right in the numbers before he inexplicably drops it. TD 3: Griese floats a dump pass over AP's head (badly) and was very nearly picked again before the bomb to Hester.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:07 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: Griese had pretty good luck on Sunday against the Vikes with all 3 of his TDs. TD 1: Winfield falls down, Berrian is wide open. TD 2: The pass right before the TD to Moose, Griese hits a Vikes defender right in the numbers before he inexplicably drops it. TD 3: Griese floats a dump pass over AP's head (badly) and was very nearly picked again before the bomb to Hester. Almost every touchdown drive has a play that the defense messes up by either bad coverage, or a missed opportunity. I also remember tha tthe pass to AP was bad, but I don't think it went through anyone defender's hands. I may be wrong.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:08 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Dude the Bears were 2nd in scoring with Rex as quarterback last year. Their offense scored over 30 touchdowns. Many of Griese's points have come from defensive take aways and because teams won't kick to Hester. As it stands now Griese has more turnovers than he does touchdowns. None of his turnovers can be attributed to receivers quitting on routes and he has been give a lot of time to pass because he is usually in the shotgun. There were a lot of fans that wanted Rex to sit even though he had 23 touchdowns and 17 interceptions going into the last game of the season. This savior Griese has now thrown 7 touchdowns and 6 interceptions but you guys think he is doing a good job. He's had a couple (this is for you Doug ) easy picks dropped too. I get it already! You think Rex is better than Griese. I already knew that. I don't think he is. I'm basing this on THIS year because it IS this year. I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind and based on your analysis you're just throwing shit up against a wall to see what sticks for a reason to say Grossman is better. I see the games too...it's ok that to disagree on which of the 2 are less shitty as long as you realize I think that neither are any good at all! I posted this because Mac kept saying that it's the same old thing with Griese as it is with Grossman, no difference. Yeah, no difference in the win/loss column so far but I've noticed the offense that scores and playing better at the quarterback position along with seemingly zero improvement from every other offensive position and a defense that gets worse every week. Improvement doesn't always translate to "I think this guy's good" unless the guy he replaced was good...he wasnt', he was one of the worst in the league. I wouldn't want to put "good" and Rex Grossman in the same sentence unless "good" was followed by "riddance". I just can't place as much blame on Griese in a loss as I could on Grossman. The coaching staff is supposed to put the players on the field that give them the best chance to win this year...the quarterback position has taken a step in the right direction. Now who else do we have at running back, wide receiver, right tackle, right guard, strong safety, free safety, defensive tackle?

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:17 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Griese has thrown more red zone interceptions this year than he has thrown touchdowns. Griese has also drove his team into the red zone more than Grossman too so at least there aren't as many three an outs. Wesmont Mike simply stated Griese is better than Grossman this year. I don't know how to dispute that really. Does that make Griese good? Hell no.

Author:	Irish Boy [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:18 pm ]
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According to Football Outsiders, the Bears have improved since week 3 (after which Grossman was benched) from the 32 best offense in the league to the 31st. Of course, they have also faced easier defenses, and San Francisco (who is now 32nd) has absolutely collapsed offensively in a way that probably would have resulted in Chicago being ranked 31st anyway.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:28 pm ]
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Woodridge Ryan wrote: Bulldog Scott wrote: Griese had pretty good luck on Sunday against the Vikes with all 3 of his TDs. TD 1: Winfield falls down, Berrian is wide open. TD 2: The pass right before the TD to Moose, Griese hits a Vikes defender right in the numbers before he inexplicably drops it. TD 3: Griese floats a dump pass over AP's head (badly) and was very nearly picked again before the bomb to Hester. And yet I don't think all three are converted with Rex at QB. For all we know Rex wouldn't haven't even seen them because he was locked in on someone else or fell on his ass or fumbled the snap. Yeah, probably. I just don't think Griese's as good as his numbers suggest. He's been better than Rex this year, though. Either way, they both suck.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:46 pm ]
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Irish Boy wrote: According to Football Outsiders, the Bears have improved since week 3 (after which Grossman was benched) from the 32 best offense in the league to the 31st. Of course, they have also faced easier defenses, and San Francisco (who is now 32nd) has absolutely collapsed offensively in a way that probably would have resulted in Chicago being ranked 31st anyway. The level of defense aside, I don't think those rankings are accurate. Maybe they did just move one spot in the rankings, I don't know, but they had to move a long way to get there. With Grossman at quarterback the Bears offense performed as follows: 8.7 points per game (11 if you count special teams), 227 total yards per game, 167 passing yards per game. With Griese at quarterback the Bears offense performed as follows: 23.7 points per game (28 if you count special teams), 349 total yards per game, 294 passing yards per game.

Author:	Thug [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:48 pm ]
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Nas wrote: the Bears were 2nd in scoring with Rex as quarterback last year. The Bears offense was responsible for only 65% of the teams total scoring last year. See the defense and Hester for the rest.

Author:	ExileOnDamen [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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2nd half of 2006 and playoffs: Defense played off the charts cuz they knew they had to make up for Grossbomb. Early 2007: the Defense gets frustrated with the offense throwing away game after game, gives up at the end of games. End of the Vikings game: The defense had 2 great final series against the Vikes offense: they forced the 3 and out punt that led to the Hester TD after the on-side and the defense held, pushed back, the vikings offense after Lovie's scew up kick off to AP. I think they pushed the field goal try back from 51 initially to 55. The D showed some teeth and pride at the end of the Vikings game. The Offense showed what it can do. Early on next game: run that play for Hester going long and drop a pass to Olsen going across the middle to the sideline about 15 to 20 yards out.

Author:	Mustang Rob [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:38 pm ]
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ExileOnDamen wrote: The D showed some teeth and pride at the end of the Vikings game. Was that before or after the Vikes racked up 321 yards rushing??? Who are you kidding. This defense is useless without Mike Brown (don't believe me, look it up) The entire system collapses with the loss of one man. He's more valuable to the Bears scheme than Bob Sanders is to the Colts. He should be wearing a fucking on his helmet.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:44 pm ]
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Mustang Rob wrote: He's more valuable to the Bears scheme than Bob Sanders is to the Colts. I know of somebody that would argue with you on that one. You doggone right Bob Sanders is the best player ever.

Author:	Mustang Rob [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:52 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: Mustang Rob wrote: He's more valuable to the Bears scheme than Bob Sanders is to the Colts. I know of somebody that would argue with you on that one. You doggone right Bob Sanders is the best player ever. Pound for pound or straight up, Scott?

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:59 pm ]
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Pound for pound ana ana straight up ana ana you doggone right that Bob Sanders will play punch you in the mouth football. I'm not in the feel good business.

Author:	Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:33 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: Pound for pound ana ana straight up ana ana you doggone right that Bob Sanders will play punch you in the mouth football. I'm not in the feel good business. Chuck Norris vs. Bob Sanders - go.

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:51 pm ]
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Bulldog Scott wrote: Woodridge Ryan wrote: Bulldog Scott wrote: Griese had pretty good luck on Sunday against the Vikes with all 3 of his TDs. TD 1: Winfield falls down, Berrian is wide open. TD 2: The pass right before the TD to Moose, Griese hits a Vikes defender right in the numbers before he inexplicably drops it. TD 3: Griese floats a dump pass over AP's head (badly) and was very nearly picked again before the bomb to Hester. And yet I don't think all three are converted with Rex at QB. For all we know Rex wouldn't haven't even seen them because he was locked in on someone else or fell on his ass or fumbled the snap. Yeah, probably. I just don't think Griese's as good as his numbers suggest. He's been better than Rex this year, though. Either way, they both suck. And I agree with your assessment as well Scott. I don't think Griese's numbers paint the entire picture here...and both suck.