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Two Chicago afternoon hosts with polar opposite observations
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9083		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Two Chicago afternoon hosts with polar opposite observations
I've heard Mac and Bernsie have the absolute opposite observations on Grossman these past few weeks.

Mac - "I just don't understand why everybody loves this guy."

Bernsie - "I can't beleive how everybody hates Rex."


Now both are over stating this. They can't gauge the millions of Bears fans. It's probrally 50/50. I just find it amazing how their opinions made each of them come to this conclusion.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:17 pm ]
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I agree. Mac points out all of the bad games. But he never mentions the 7 games that he had an over 100 rating.

Mac has proved he can't evaluate talent anyway. Remember Jon (Judy) Garland and Joe (the lamb) Crede. Now maybe it's just trying to be funny but still Mac wouldn't make a good scout.
Author:  bwfalcon [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 pm ]
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Quote:
Remember Jon (Judy) Garland and Joe (the lamb) Crede. Now maybe it's just trying to be funny but still Mac wouldn't make a good scout.


In fairness, I believe both those nicknames have been revoked. At the time I think they were warranted.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:28 pm ]
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Yeah I know. Personally speaking I always thought Garland would be good. But yes I gave up on Crede too. But Mac likes to hit something and is usually to stuborn to admit he was wrong. Unless it becomes painfully obvious. If the Bears lose he'll be chirping. If they win he'll say they did it in spite of Rex. Only one QB is left as the champion every year. Does that mean that 30 QBs suck?
Author:  MattInTheCrown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:38 pm ]
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Quote:
I agree. Mac points out all of the bad games. But he never mentions the 7 games that he had an over 100 rating.

Similarly, hardly anyone ever praises John Wayne Gacy for the countless children he entertained as a clown.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:42 pm ]
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Nas I think you're over stating it too. More people like him then you think. I always have. There are millions of Bears fans. A fraction of 1% call the radio stations. He has his haters. Yes. But alot of people like him to. I'd guess it's 50/50.
Author:  Mac [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:44 pm ]
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You guys can't see the forest through the trees. Grossman led the league in what category this year? Need help? How about the most games with a rating below 40. That's right: 40. And if you think I want the Bears to lose so I can be "vindicated" on Grossman, then you just don't know me.
Author:  hawkeye [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:44 pm ]
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It's amazing to me how quickly we get spoiled and over critical in Chicago. Who was the last quarterback we had that would have completed those throws to Berrian and Davis on Sunday? It's like this whole town has turned into a bunch of masochists. I'm just as much to blame though with my counting of Murph drops and calling Jeffin Trotter to tell him his voice sucks.
Author:  MattInTheCrown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Similarly, hardly anyone ever praises John Wayne Gacy for the countless children he entertained as a clown.

That's a great comparison Matt and I can't say I expected anything more from you :lol:

The point is that, when you do something really, really bad, people tend to overlook the good you do. Rex had a 1.3 rating and a 0 rating. It's not surprising people overlook the good games.

The comparison? Witty beyond belief.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
He also led the league with most games over a 100 rating. Look it up Mac. See, you can't see in that forest either. He's not a hall of famer Mac. I know. But you make him out to be the worst QB ever. He was the best player on the field in the playoff game Sunday. That's a fact.

Mac I never said you wanted the Bears to lose. I know you better then that.
Author:  bwfalcon [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:50 pm ]
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Quote:
2nd best season in franchise history


Just curious what standard you are using for this? Are you using a specific stat?

It seems it is not for least games under a 40 rating. :wink:
Author:  Coast2Coast [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:51 pm ]
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I just look forward to the day when sports talk hosts and some fans involved in debates stop using strawman arguments with absolutes like "everybody/nobody" agrees/disagrees with them. Absolutes are the hobgoblin of weak minds. The only absolute statement that can be made is that everybody agrees on nothing.

Maybe Bernsie and Mac ought to do a poll and find out just how many people do agree with them. I would suggest the number is close to 50/50.
Author:  Mac [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:52 pm ]
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To Hawkeye's point... a bad history of Bears quarterbacks does not mean we should cartwheels over above average... and that's what Grossman has been. As for being the best on the field Sunday... you're right.. he was. I'll bet Brees is better this Sunday, as will be both Manning and Brady. Raise your standards a little bit, fellas.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:55 pm ]
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My standard is to win. So far Grossman is 1 for 1 this year.
Author:  MattInTheCrown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
He was the best player on the field in the playoff game Sunday. That's a fact.

No, its an opinion. I think Jones and Benson were both at least as good. Jones had two touchdowns and didn't run backwards 20 yards, fumble the ball, and set the Hawks up for a touchdown. As I recall, Rex had one touchdown, and did run backwards 20 yards, fumble the ball, and set the Hawks up for a touchdown. He played well otherwise, but lets not go overboard.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:58 pm ]
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OK, we've all made are points. Thanks for doing two shows today Mac. Let's all enjoy the rest of the playoffs.
Author:  hawkeye [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
To Hawkeye's point... a bad history of Bears quarterbacks does not mean we should cartwheels over above average... and that's what Grossman has been. As for being the best on the field Sunday... you're right.. he was. I'll bet Brees is better this Sunday, as will be both Manning and Brady. Raise your standards a little bit, fellas.


Mac, I understand that and don't expect everyone to do cartwheels for above average, but when exactly were Bears fans collectively pining for the next Joe Montana? All I remember recently is people asking for someone even competent who could stretch a defense so there weren't "8 in the box" all the time. Even a bad Orton was loved by many fans last year and Rex has obviously done a much better job this year.

Grossman probably hurt himself by being SO GOOD early in the year. He had no place to go but down and set to high of an expectation level with Bears fans to start the year. That doesn't mean we should be so damn down on him as seen in the last couple of days after a playoff victory. It just amazes me.
Author:  doug - evergreen park [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The only absolute statement that can be made is that everybody agrees on nothing.


I disagree Coast......


wait....
Author:  Coast2Coast [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nas, Nobody that I have seen in this thread is suggesting Griese would be better. So you're using another strawman here. Griese has nothing to do with this. The argument is whether Grossman is good enough to win a Super Bowl. You clearly think he is. Others disagree. The real questions in my mind are: Is Good Rex good enough to win the Super Bowl? Possibly. Will Bad Rex prevent that from happening? Possibly.

And Nas...Rex gets nothing but negative press? What are you reading and listening to, anyway? Do you want me to do a LexisNexis search and send you links to all the positive stories that have been written about Rex? That's nonsense. I would suggest the mix is probably close to 50/50..just like his good games and bad games.
Author:  BD [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:06 pm ]
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Mac wrote:
To Hawkeye's point... a bad history of Bears quarterbacks does not mean we should cartwheels over above average... and that's what Grossman has been. As for being the best on the field Sunday... you're right.. he was. I'll bet Brees is better this Sunday, as will be both Manning and Brady. Raise your standards a little bit, fellas.


So now, we're comparing Grossman's play to Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady ????

That may explain why you're constantly dissapointed in Grossman's play then, if you're comparing him to league MVP's, and potential league MVP's.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:08 pm ]
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Actually if you compared Grossman to Brady and Manning this past week -Grossman would win.
Author:  hawkeye [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The argument is whether Grossman is good enough to win a Super Bowl. You clearly think he is. Others disagree. The real questions in my mind are: Is Good Rex good enough to win the Super Bowl? Possibly. Will Bad Rex prevent that from happening? Possibly.


I don't understand the purpose of even having that argument at this point in the season though. Barring injury or loss Rex will be the quarterback, period. Why can't we just go along for the ride at this point and try to enjoy it? I think Nas' mentioning of Griese is valid because of the argument you made above. He's the only alternative at this point and not a strawman. Bernstein is right I think. If the Bears win the super bowl because of Rex, people will still be complaining about him as they're doing now.
Author:  doug - evergreen park [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah...i'm a little confused by this.

so, after the Bears win the Super Bowl....is Rex then on the worst QB's to win the Super Bowl list with Trent Dilfer?
Hardly....
Author:  MUScholar21 [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Actually if you compared Grossman to Brady and Manning this past week -Grossman would win.


And if you compared Grossman in Week 17 to Chris Simms, Daunte Culpepper, and Sid Luckman, they would have had the same quarterback rating.
Author:  BD [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Beardown wrote:
Actually if you compared Grossman to Brady and Manning this past week -Grossman would win.


That's true, but I think we all would be surprised if Grossman consistently is outplaying (or playing at the same level) Brady and Manning.
Author:  Mac [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why wouldn't I, BD? Those are the three other starters these weekend. Nice e-mail on the Archie Manning half colts, half Saints, jersey today.
Author:  doug - evergreen park [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:11 pm ]
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nice, Paul... :lol:
Author:  BD [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mac wrote:
Why wouldn't I, BD? Those are the three other starters these weekend. Nice e-mail on the Archie Manning half colts, half Saints, jersey today.


Of course, you can, but I think you're setting up Rex to fail in comparison to those players who are in the prime of their careers. Rex is a rookie in terms of playing experience, and are clearly more than above average players, which is how you defined Grossman's play this season.

This may be a bad comparison, but I'll give it a shot..
It would be like comparing Zambrano and Rich Hill. Hill had some bad games, and some good games, and Zambrano had primarily good games, but I wouldn't say they are on the same level, just like Grossman is not the same level of the other 3 QB's this weekend, although it's possible he could outplay them.
Author:  hawkeye [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:14 pm ]
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Mac-Posting while interviewing Payton? I'm impressed at your multitasking capabilities.
Author:  Woodridge Ryan [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:16 pm ]
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Was that interview live or done earlier?
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