This is exactly right. The Cubs didn't couldn't draw flies to Wrigley in the 70s when Lakeview was a working-class neighborhood and the stadium was considered an embarrassment. The perception of Wrigley changed when the neighborhood gentrified in the early 80s (becoming a key destination for recent college grads from across the Midwest), Harry Caray was hired by the Cubs (and soon provided the aesthetic sensibility and vocabulary that reinvented the aging and decrepit Wrigley Field as the locus of "Wrigleyville", a quirky, vibrant and youthful "community"), and the Cubs began to enjoy a limited degree of success.

Also, in my experience, Fenway is a much better place to see a game than Wrigley--it has a palpably more intimate, energetic feel that isn't matched by Wrigley. Aesthetically, Wrigley seems to have been designed as a patoral refuge from the tumult of industrialization (echoing the "civilizing" mission of public parks whose aesthetics were informed by the ideological agenda of social "reform") whereas Fenway's design consciously embraces industrial proletarian culture, even with its PMC facelift.

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Camden also. I don't wander so I don't care. I'm not there to picnic but I understand most are.

Clemens has talked about how when he was dropped off at Fenway for his first game, he thought it was an abandoned warehouse and that the driver had pranked him. In a way, it feels more like a cousin of the old English soccer stadiums that were seamlessly integrated into neighborhoods. You know, the ones where it looks like a block of rowhouses from the outside.

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I get why these ballparks are now beloved. They are a connection to a time that no longer exists. And it's not something that can easily be recreated without seeming like a Disneyesque version of the real thing.

But time itself may fix that with the regard to the wave of urban "retro" ballparks. Camden Yards is probably on the verge of actually becoming the real thing to which it paid homage.

This isn't baseball related but it's a similar concept. Club Lucky was a modern restaurant designed to mimic classic old school checkered table cloth Italian joints. But it's been around so long now it has actually become the thing it originally mimicked.

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General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

The fetishization of Wrigley and the popularity of a retro "themed" restaurant like Club Lucky are both the product of a longing for a past that never really existed. They are aligned with a sanitization and sterilization of industrial culture and history, which is rooted in class struggle/exploitation, the homogenization of labor, and the proletarianization of the laborer. The capitalist nostalgia captured in the mythology of "Wrigleyville" or Club Lucky is only possible through the triumph of the PMC, the displacement of the working class, and the marginalization of the conflicts and brutality that defined the social experience of early to mid-20th century urbanism. Nostalgia is an authentic longing for inauthenticity.

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I have no desire to wrestle with that nor does 99% of the population. It's best that gets packed in a box and put in the the far reaches of the closet.

You're right, of course, but I still think Wrigley Field is cool. Better than the exurban hell the Rangers play in.

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Wrigley is amazing. The bleachers are one big party. The entire seating is close to the field. It has a good view of the lake. The reserved seats suck with polls and deck blocking views, but everything else is a solid seat. The atmosphere in and around the park is unmatched.

I prefer AmFam and Citi to it. I put it right up there with Coors especially the amount of action around the park. I like it more than PNC, which is usually considered a top five venue.

I feel like TM is doing his political ranting about a place that hosts baseball.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Of course you do. After all, the hegemony of the PMC is only made possible through the erasure of class exploitation and violent social transformation. No offense intended, I'm just outlining the social conditions that are generative of your subject position.

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So Wrigley is amazing, but also "right up there" with Neo-Retro Stadium #4?

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I just enjoy watching a baseball game there.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I only enjoy a baseball game after doing a formal land acknowledgement so that my entire section knows we’re sitting on stolen ground.

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You kind of have to be an asshole to think that Wrigley or Fenway isn't a special place.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's because you are a smart cookie. You would love to have a 2 hr convo over beers with Midget, take the scenic ride home, have a nightcap, and then blow your brains out.

Do you know how many people died liberating the paint mixing facility where they manufactured the green shade used on Fenway’s oversized wall? Do you have any concept - any - of the toil that went into brick manufacturing in Chicago in the early 20th century and the sheer exploitativenessedness Chuck Weeghman used to secure enough material for his bullshit little wall in the outfield?

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What is it you think makes them "special"?

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General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Ill answer that but first... what the hell is wrong with you?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Wrigley is a lot less special now that it's covered in ads. A big part of what made it so beautiful is that it wasn't a modern assault on the eyes. Now there are giant video screens so we can know the pitch count, launch angle, and the official vodka of the Cubs. But at least the location is still nice.

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Getting green paint for the wall at Fenway is a mission in Fallout 4. Pretty sure there’s 3 raiders inside and 2 outside by the loading docks. So typically anywhere from 3-5 people died at Hardware Town for the green paint.

Fine but you want the team to sign high priced free agents. They have to get money from somewhere. “Monetize everything”

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Hawaii (fuck) You

CH is spot on. Cubs fans should hate what they've done to the ballpark. There's more ads than a social media feed, but you can still pay $70 to sit behind a pole or not see a ball hit higher than 10 feet in the air.

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I am seeing lots of people at Wrigley today upset about the facilities.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Same reason a 1920 house with a wrap around porch is special. I mean AI will never get it but certainly you should. They say the people of Sweden are happy in their 500 Sq ft box apartments with their fold down kitchen table, but I tend to doubt that.

I guess the term best is an opinion. But biggest is not, it is reality.

Chicago is still one of the biggest cities in the nation. And I am pretty certain you think of it as one of the best.

And in the time frame you are talking was not Boston a top 10 city in population? And in comparison with other baseball cities in the nation I would say Chicago and Boston have been viewed as a top tier city.

Either way I think you are still on pretty shaky ground for any time period to try and argue that those 2 ballparks were seen as the worst of any in existence.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Just because something is old doesn't make it great though. The two remaining old parks aren't particularly significant architecturally or stylistically. They remain. I assume that is what makes them "special."

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General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

There are definitely many quirks, some good, some not so god, in each ballpark. It's all part of the charm. I go to watch baseball, me more than anybody else should not really give a shit, but you have a a brain of plastic not to acknowledge the appeal. So stop. You're wandering into Brick/Biden territory.

i'll be at the adblasted wrigley on friday the 13th. i was thinking of wearing a jason mask.

Most of those 1920’s houses had one bathroom and no shower. Also no a/c, so the porch was nice.

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“How do you get to be president and you’re stupid?” Donald J Trump - 4/10/25
When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus. - Turkish Proverb

What high priced free agents are the Cubs signing Denis?