I disagree. How do you know he knows what he was signing up for? In fact most of the clues from interviews have pointed to him NOT knowing.

I think Theo thought the payroll would be low for a couple years but then they would start to spend. That didnt happen.

Id agree with this if he werent 29 and asking for more than he's worth

I still think they should try and keep him, but I could see this post looking really bad in a year if they trade him for something decent and he tails off.

If he were 27 Id say keep him by any means neccessary. As it is, I think they should do all they can to sign him to a reasonable (15m per) contract.

If we are going to act like Theo is one of the smartest people in baseball then we can't selectively choose to think he was bamboozled by Ricketts.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He has a much higher chance of success than any player in the minors.

The major point is that they have spent 3 years building up the system looking for important MLB players. They have one, and seemingly are ready to get rid of him to hope they find another one later on. That is why it would be the first sign of failure of the plan. If in year 3(or 5) of a rebuild you don't find it important to keep a pitcher like that then your plan hasn't worked.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why? One has nothing to do with the other. You could be a genius with statistics and a terrible negotiator

It's year 3.

If they get some good pitching back for him than it's a good deal. (Like the Sox trading Peavy, he's a few years older but just as valuable as Samardzija)

He wont be the first premier starting pitcher to be traded and many of those teams were in Win NOW mode. (Rays, Brewers, Indians etc)


It seems like you want so badly to call the "plan" a failure that you start from there and then build your case. Just wait and see and you'll probably be fine. They havent won in 100 years. No need to jump on every move as they make it.

Ok. Theo was tricked and has been abused by Ricketts.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Black and White Rick

Either Theo is an omnipotent genius or a complete idiot.

The point is not whether it is a good deal or not. It's that no team in year 3 should be looking to trade a younger pitcher like that unless they are still looking towards the future and not the present. You don't think a pitcher like him wouldn't be valuable over the next 3 years? Maybe Theo will get a future Cy Young winner for him, but it's most likely the prospects he gets don't reach the level that Shark has.
I think you are being oversensitive if you think I want to call the plan a failure. I'm just looking at where it is now, after 3 years of tanking(I know, they didn't lose games on purpose), and I'm looking at potential important pieces like Shark being shipped away to build for another 2 or 3 years down the line, and I think it isn't paying off yet.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Isn't that pretty much EXACTLY what you are saying?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Is that an unwritten rule of baseball? I don't see that rule anywhere in the MLB rulebook.

No, I agree if the trade brings back low level prospects. Im talking about if they get a Garcia/Eaton type (especially if it's a starting pitcehr) who is major league ready or knocking on the door of major league ready


You've been calling the plan a failure since day one. So its really not because after three years you havent seen progress or you wouldnt have been ripping it back then.

I guess we see it differently. I never saw it as some perfect plan that will end in many years of playoffs. To me this was just like every other GM that came in with an idea. (The one thing I did like is the focus on development as that had not been a priority of any GM in the last 20 years) They all want to win. It seems like you are reacting to Bernstein types who made idiotic comments on the plan, which is understandable.

No, not at all. Im saying we dont know and its probably somewhere in the middle. (i.e. Theo knew Ricketts didnt have Yankee RedSox type money, but didnt think the payroll would be THIS low)

You're saying its one or the other extremes.

Is that what will happen though? I'll stand corrected if they trade him for quality MLB ready talent.
I think it is fair to judge any GM after 3 years. That is all I am doing.

In year 6, he may have done a great job. In year 3, he hasn't. The best you can say he's created reasons for optimism, but so would most people with high draft picks and trading away anyone who is worth anything.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You've said that Ricketts lied to Theo, or he went back on promises to Theo and that is why they are where they are at.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Who knows? I certainly hope so. If they trade him for a guy who's MLB ETA is 2016 or later than Ill agree with what you said.


Agreed. Not a good job. Wouldnt call if a failure yet though

I said Theo has made it seem like some things were promised but not delivered so I wouldnt assume he knew everything going in. That's all.

Disagree. Theo is president of baseball operations. All levels of baseball. I've seen vast improvement in 3 years.

If there is so much improvement, why does Shark need to be traded? Why not try and win next year with him?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I would like him to stay. At first I was OK trading high on the guy but given all the injuries these days I'd like him re-signed. But it's not my call and I don't have orders from my owner to keep payroll low.

THOUGH, Shark has said it's his duty to seek as much compensation as possible for the next wave of players. If Shark isn't willing to sign 3-4 year tops then I think you look to move on. Reinsdorf was ahead of the curve on that one.

see how slight of hand works...you either forget or exclude the most important level

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

you guys are still on this?

I was just trolling in my original post.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Vast improvements? I think Hendry's minor league teams won championships on a yearly basis. I would like to see actual stats on Hendrys success at the Minor League level,but I seem to remember constant good news coming from the minors AT THE SAME TIME the Cubs were competitive or clinching divisions!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

He did know that he was being brought as highly paid flak for that first couple of years. I agree that he didn't really know the team financials and how much his baseball operations were going to be tied to indefinite expansion of monetization opportunites

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

He isn't a genius with statistics.

He is a decent manager of organization.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Motherfucker, I typed (not saying Theo is a genius) but deleted thinking it was understood to be an extreme example.

fuckin lawers need everything on paper

Minor league prospect experts: is my assessment of Rodon being the best prospect today for either Chicago team preposterous?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

At least you got his name right this time.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

it is until he is signed.

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Yes. He's not even the best pitcher drafted. That pick would be Jake Stinnett.