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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:34 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Cub fans (and probably Theo himself) still retain a bloated perspective of what Schwarber is as a player.

I dont get that sense anymore.
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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:35 pm 
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312player wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
1. Don't trade Contreras. He'll be better next year.

2. Start Almora in CF.

3. Trade Schwarber. His value was never higher than at the start of the 2017 season but I think he showed enough defensively in the outfield this year for some NL teams to be interested and help raise the price a bit. Are the Phillies looking for another corner outfielder to pair with Hoskins? Miami's outfielders suck. Maybe Jeter wants a "young veteran" presence? Schwarber would have a lot of fun hitting at Chase Field. Jon Jay is walking and Souza blows.

4. Give Happ another year. It'd be great if he could work on not striking out so fucking much. I'd be cool with dealing him and Schwarber together if it gets you back something substantial.

5. Sign Harper. His OBP is ridiculous, among other things.

6. Wait and see with Russell. I watched his ex-wife's interview with WGN. She said things like, "Thank god they won Game 7 that night or else he would have come home in a bad mood!" and "The physical stuff wasn't every day or every month but this one time he broke my phone" or "I was going to post a photo of us on Instagram but he got mad at me because he wanted to post the photo first." Maybe he's just a really big asshole. I like his defense and his postseason hitting though.



Agreed. We have to get stronger arms, I can't stand having a bunch of soft tossers.. I want guys who can hit 96 plus with movement. I was watching the Yanks- A's last night.. They have 8 or 9 guys combined better than any bullpen we have.

The speed is just a luxury, if you get outs, you get outs.

The bullpen was great overall this year. But that is now a thing teams need to try and upgrade every year.
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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:37 pm 
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There is use for him if he can continue to play a viable LF and hit 25 HRs a year. Maybe he isn't the guy that can carry a team offensively for a couple weeks, but he can still be a pretty solid player for the Cubs.

With Russell, Schwarber, Almora, Happ, etc...what are you going to get if you trade those guys? You aren't going to get much unless you ship 2 or 3 of them off together.

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Kirkwood
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
There is use for him if he can continue to play a viable LF and hit 25 HRs a year. Maybe he isn't the guy that can carry a team offensively for a couple weeks, but he can still be a pretty solid player for the Cubs.

With Russell, Schwarber, Almora, Happ, etc...what are you going to get if you trade those guys? You aren't going to get much unless you ship 2 or 3 of them off together.

Those players are solid regulars, making under $1M with additional years of control. You can get value for them.
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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:43 pm 
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More often than not, they were platoon players. Point being, you are not going to get an All Star back in a trade straight up.

If you trade Happ, are you getting a better player in return? Equal maybe/probably, but not better. Maybe you deal one of those for a solid bullpen arm which fits a need.

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Ron Wolfley
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:47 pm 
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They were platoon players with the Cubs. They’d be starters on other teams.
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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:50 pm 
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I hate to agree with Frank, but he's right. Theo even admitted they looked into dealing some young position players last offseason and the offers from other teams were not great. NONE of these players had a 2018 that blew you out of the water so their value is even lower.
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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Ron Wolfley wrote:
They were platoon players with the Cubs. They’d be starters on other teams.
Would they be? All of them? Almora sure, but that's mainly because of his defense.

The White Sox lost 100 games this season. Honestly I would rather a healthy Avi Garcia and Adam Engel playing 140+ games in RF and CF over Ian Happ. And I say that knowing that Engel was pretty much an automatic out the first month of the season.

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Schwarber or Happ will be traded.

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
They were platoon players with the Cubs. They’d be starters on other teams.
Would they be? All of them? Almora sure, but that's mainly because of his defense.

The White Sox lost 100 games this season. Honestly I would rather a healthy Avi Garcia and Adam Engel playing 140+ games in RF and CF over Ian Happ. And I say that knowing that Engel was pretty much an automatic out the first month of the season.


Happ is a 2B and Schwarber is a DH. They both would have value at those positions. Both are solid OBP guys, with pop. There is value there.

Cubs don't need a starting player for them, but a prospect with good upside could be worth it. Or an Arrieta-type re-build project.
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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Happ is a 2B
Then why does he have nearly 200 career games as an outfielder, and only about 40 as a second baseman?

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Happ is a 2B
Then why does he have nearly 200 career games as an outfielder, and only about 40 as a second baseman?


Because of Baez and Zobrist.
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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Happ is a butcher at 2B. When he was drafted, most scouts predicted he would end up in LF. Theo gave the usual "flexibility" answers but I think everyone sees him as an OF by now. The team played LaStella at 2B over Happ a few times this year. That should tell you enough.

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:14 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Happ is a butcher at 2B. When he was drafted, most scouts predicted he would end up in LF. Theo gave the usual "flexibility" answers but I think everyone sees him as an OF by now. The team played LaStella at 2B over Happ a few times this year. That should tell you enough.


The Cubs played him in CF most of the year. I doubt they played him there because he was so bad at 2B. "Let's move him to a more important defensive position because he was bad at this one that you normally hide bad defensive infielders at."
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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Happ is a butcher at 2B. When he was drafted, most scouts predicted he would end up in LF. Theo gave the usual "flexibility" answers but I think everyone sees him as an OF by now. The team played LaStella at 2B over Happ a few times this year. That should tell you enough.


The Cubs played him in CF most of the year. I doubt they played him there because he was so bad at 2B. "Let's move him to a more important defensive position because he was bad at this one that you normally hide bad defensive infielders at."

I hope you're posting from a position of ignorance at this point. You do realize the skill set for being good at the infield is an entirely different skill set than being good in the outfield, yes? Infielders need to be quick with their hands, accurate with their throws, and able to make throws with their momentum going various ways. Outfielders generally need speed, especially when they do not break well to the ball. Happ certainly does not get good breaks on a lot of fly balls. Compare him to Almora to see the difference. Happ also does not have a very strong nor accurate arm, and his 'Held %' is much lower than the average outfielder. They play Happ in CF to get his bat in the lineup. They don't view him as Kevin Pillar.

Anyway:

http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballpros ... ng-report/

https://www.mlb.com/news/draft-profile- ... -128141558

https://baseballcensus.com/2017/05/17/c ... ct-rookie/

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:02 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Happ is a butcher at 2B. When he was drafted, most scouts predicted he would end up in LF. Theo gave the usual "flexibility" answers but I think everyone sees him as an OF by now. The team played LaStella at 2B over Happ a few times this year. That should tell you enough.


The Cubs played him in CF most of the year. I doubt they played him there because he was so bad at 2B. "Let's move him to a more important defensive position because he was bad at this one that you normally hide bad defensive infielders at."

I hope you're posting from a position of ignorance at this point. You do realize the skill set for being good at the infield is an entirely different skill set than being good in the outfield, yes? Infielders need to be quick with their hands, accurate with their throws, and able to make throws with their momentum going various ways. Outfielders generally need speed, especially when they do not break well to the ball. Happ certainly does not get good breaks on a lot of fly balls. Compare him to Almora to see the difference. Happ also does not have a very strong nor accurate arm, and his 'Held %' is much lower than the average outfielder. They play Happ in CF to get his bat in the lineup. They don't view him as Kevin Pillar.

Anyway:

http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballpros ... ng-report/

https://www.mlb.com/news/draft-profile- ... -128141558

https://baseballcensus.com/2017/05/17/c ... ct-rookie/


No shit he sucks at CF, but they didn't put him there because he was a worse 2B. Murphy sucks at 2B, you don't see him getting put in CF to get his bat in the lineup.

Happ will never be Baez, but he is certainly more than capable to manning 2B poorly, just like most 2B do.
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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
No shit he sucks at CF, but they didn't put him there because he was a worse 2B. Murphy sucks at 2B, you don't see him getting put in CF to get his bat in the lineup.

Happ will never be Baez, but he is certainly more than capable to manning 2B poorly, just like most 2B do.

He sucks less in the OF than he does at 2B. It is as simple as that.

Murphy is not fast. Murphy would not be able to do what Happ can do in the outfield.

I don't exactly understand the point you are trying to make? That Happ is a 2B? Then tell MLB because his player profile lists CF and CF only. He played 3 innings at 2B this year. For his professional career, he has 2,151.1 innings in the OF and 1,301 innings at 2B. 906.1 of those 2B innings were in 2016. He WAS a second baseman. Craig Biggio WAS a catcher. Miguel Cabrera WAS a third baseman. Albert Pujols WAS a left fielder.

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Last edited by IMU on Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ron Wolfley
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Schwarber’s best fit is at DH but I think a few NL teams will be calling. He showed he’s competent in LF.
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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:21 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
No shit he sucks at CF, but they didn't put him there because he was a worse 2B. Murphy sucks at 2B, you don't see him getting put in CF to get his bat in the lineup.

Happ will never be Baez, but he is certainly more than capable to manning 2B poorly, just like most 2B do.

He sucks less in the OF than he does at 2B. It is as simple as that.

Murphy is not fast. Murphy would not be able to do what Happ can do in the outfield.

I don't exactly understand the point you are trying to make? That Happ is a 2B? Then tell MLB because his player profile lists CF and CF only. He played 3 innings at 2B this year. For his professional career, he has 2,151.1 innings in the OF and 1,301 innings at 2B. 906.1 of those 2B innings were in 2016. He WAS a second baseman. Craig Biggio WAS a catcher. Miguel Cabrera WAS a third baseman. Albert Pujols WAS a left fielder.


All of those guys WERE those things until they were physically unable to be those things and stay healthy. Of course he is listed as a CF, because he basically only plays CF for the Cubs. The Cubs forced him to CF because they wanted his bat in the lineup and 2B was filled by two players who cannot play CF.

The point is, he CAN play 2B and SHOULD play 2B and has value in a trade as a 2B.
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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The point is, he CAN play 2B and SHOULD play 2B and has value in a trade as a 2B.
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Then why does he have nearly 200 career games as an outfielder, and only about 40 as a second baseman?

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The point is, he CAN play 2B and SHOULD play 2B and has value in a trade as a 2B.
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Then why does he have nearly 200 career games as an outfielder, and only about 40 as a second baseman?



Big Chicagoan wrote:
Of course he is listed as a CF, because he basically only plays CF for the Cubs. The Cubs forced him to CF because they wanted his bat in the lineup and 2B was filled by two players who cannot play CF.


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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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If he was that good at second, he would be playing second.

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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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I guess Big Chicagoan is the second professional scout on the board, and apparently can see something in Happ that no other major league scout can see. Kudos.

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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
If he was that good at second, he would be playing second.


If he was better than Baez and Zobrist, he would. But he's not.
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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:31 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I guess Big Chicagoan is the second professional scout on the board, and apparently can see something in Happ that no other major league scout can see. Kudos.


Cubs thought he was a 2B, too. That's why he played there in the minors. They switched him to CF because they didn't have a spot for him at 2B.
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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
IMU wrote:
I guess Big Chicagoan is the second professional scout on the board, and apparently can see something in Happ that no other major league scout can see. Kudos.


Cubs thought he was a 2B, too. That's why he played there in the minors. They switched him to CF because they didn't have a spot for him at 2B.


Actually, they played him exclusively in the OF the first year in the Cubs organization. He only started playing 2B again in 2016.

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America
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Spend their way out of the hole and don't give up on the guys they really believe in. The ones they don't believe in need to go.

They have already fucked this up by keeping the manager who they CLEARLY don't believe in but will let stay another year for sentimental reasons.
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Big Chicagoan
 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:41 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
IMU wrote:
I guess Big Chicagoan is the second professional scout on the board, and apparently can see something in Happ that no other major league scout can see. Kudos.


Cubs thought he was a 2B, too. That's why he played there in the minors. They switched him to CF because they didn't have a spot for him at 2B.


Actually, they played him exclusively in the OF the first year in the Cubs organization. He only started playing 2B again in 2016.


They played him there for 35 games or something like that the year they drafted him just so he could get his feet wet with less risk of being hurt. He played 100+ games at 2B the next season. They then switched him to CF in anticipation of him being called up to the big leagues because they had no one to play CF that could hit a baseball.
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 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:58 pm 
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The more I think about this, the more I come up with this roster on the hitting side:

Machado (FA)
Baez
Bryant
Rizzo
Contreras or Realmuto (trade)

Platoon LH bats:
Heyward
Schwarber
Murphy (he loves hitting in the daytime - .319/.366/.477)

Platoon RH bats:
Almora
McCutchen (FA)
Zobrist

Pinch hitting:
Backup catcher
LaStella or Bote

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 Post subject: Re: Fix the Cubs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Contreras, Almora for JT, Dietrich and Castro.

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