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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Hopefully he doesn't wait too long to get something in return. Remember how valuable Felix Pie and Korey Paterson were?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Remember when he sold you sycophants on the theory that pitching was plentiful and easily obtained in free agency?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:28 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Remember when he sold you sycophants on the theory that pitching was plentiful and easily obtained in free agency?


I called bullshit on that immediately. IMU and/or Bucky Chris tried to convince me I was wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:29 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Remember when he sold you sycophants on the theory that pitching was plentiful and easily obtained in free agency?

It isn't?

The Cubs have their choice of aces. They don't have to get Lester at all costs, or Scherzer. They don't have to give up the farm for Hamels as there is Zimmermann and others.

The Cubs can be selective.

At the end of this off-season, the Cubs will likely have:

"Ace", Arrieta, Hammel, Hendricks, and a guy. And this wasn't even the year of free agent pitching; that is next off-season.

I'm very content with the current bargaining chips.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Has another GM signed more FA starting pitching than Theo this offseason?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:33 pm 
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I would grab Shields and wait until next year. I wouldn't count on Hendricks being anything more than a #5 and would still be looking for an upgrade that doesn't throw as hard as Maddux did his last year in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:36 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Remember when he sold you sycophants on the theory that pitching was plentiful and easily obtained in free agency?

It isn't?

The Cubs have their choice of aces. They don't have to get Lester at all costs, or Scherzer. They don't have to give up the farm for Hamels as there is Zimmermann and others.

The Cubs can be selective.

At the end of this off-season, the Cubs will likely have:

"Ace", Arrieta, Hammel, Hendricks, and a guy. And this wasn't even the year of free agent pitching; that is next off-season.

I'm very content with the current bargaining chips.


Maybe you didn't read about Zimmerman and the nationals negotiating, or ace Lester most likely going elsewhere, or the hometown cardinals getting in on scherzer

Even your best case scenario isn't all that great of an option

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I would grab Shields and wait until next year. I wouldn't count on Hendricks being anything more than a #5 and would still be looking for an upgrade that doesn't throw as hard as Maddux did his last year in the league.


If you have to sign 33 year old shields to 5 years that is worse than signing the 30 year olds to 7

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Maybe you didn't read about Zimmerman and the nationals negotiating, or ace Lester most likely going elsewhere, or the hometown cardinals getting in on scherzer

Even your best case scenario isn't all that great of an option

Sounds like sour apples. Enjoy Samardzija.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:38 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Has another GM signed more FA starting pitching than Theo this offseason?


No, which only goes to prove my point

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Sour apples?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Sour apples?

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:41 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
I would grab Shields and wait until next year. I wouldn't count on Hendricks being anything more than a #5 and would still be looking for an upgrade that doesn't throw as hard as Maddux did his last year in the league.


If you have to sign 33 year old shields to 5 years that is worse than signing the 30 year olds to 7


No it isn't. Shields will come for nearly half the cost of Lester. He's an innings eater and some would argue he was better than Lester before the 2nd half of 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Lol panic setting in.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
I would grab Shields and wait until next year. I wouldn't count on Hendricks being anything more than a #5 and would still be looking for an upgrade that doesn't throw as hard as Maddux did his last year in the league.


If you have to sign 33 year old shields to 5 years that is worse than signing the 30 year olds to 7


No it isn't. Shields will come for nearly half the cost of Lester. He's an innings eater and some would argue he was better than Lester before the 2nd half of 2013.

In what world do you think Shields will cost $12M a season?
Darkside wrote:
Sour apples?

womp womp

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Shields will cost $80-$100M and right now Lester will get at least $150M and may get $170M+.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Reinsdorf is smoking a cigar with Hahn and Kenny and saying fuck Theo's plan we get Shields or no one does. :lol: Approaching 80 and wants to screw Cubs till the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:29 pm 
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Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 2m2 minutes ago
#Cubs, #DBacks discussing trade that would send Miguel Montero to Chicago, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @FOXSports

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:33 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 2m2 minutes ago
#Cubs, #DBacks discussing trade that would send Miguel Montero to Chicago, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @FOXSports


He's owed a lot of money and hasn't swung the bat well in a few year.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:16 am 
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Nas wrote:
Shields will cost $80-$100M and right now Lester will get at least $150M and may get $170M+.


Maybe. We will see. I think Shields will end up getting something unreasonable.

However, all of those years at the end of a Lester contract come within 1-2 years of signing Shields

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:17 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Sour apples?


people like sour apples, just like they like emerging ace Jeff Samardzija

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:26 am 
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why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year? Suck one more year, play all your kids and evaluate them at the major league level, get one more high draft pick while the division is so good, then put everything in for 2016. Why would you want any of these pitchers (see: Jeff Samardzija)?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:30 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year? Suck one more year, play all your kids and evaluate them at the major league level, get one more high draft pick while the division is so good, then put everything in for 2016. Why would you want any of these pitchers (see: Jeff Samardzija)?


I thought it was a great idea to let the kids play without pressure this season. I guess Theo wants to speed the process up.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:32 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:32 am 
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Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year? Suck one more year, play all your kids and evaluate them at the major league level, get one more high draft pick while the division is so good, then put everything in for 2016. Why would you want any of these pitchers (see: Jeff Samardzija)?


I thought it was a great idea to let the kids play without pressure this season. I guess Theo wants to speed the process up.


He doesn't. He said 18 months for a signing and it is looking like that is his timeframe.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

I think Theo's plan has left him squarely in a timeline of contending in 2016. You are purposefully being obtuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

Yeah - not a thought shared by the rest of us.

If you have a chance to succeed now without sacrificing chances to succeed in the future, you do it.

Lester may not be Kershaw, but he is a pitcher that can help a team at the front of their rotation. He is pricey, but the contract wouldn't prevent the Cubs from doing other things. And it would cost the Cubs no prospects, which could develop into pieces to help the club or be traded off for additional pieces to help the club.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:38 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

I think Theo's plan has left him squarely in a timeline of contending in 2016. You are purposefully being obtuse.
There is no way that 2016 was his timeline to compete when he was hired. Not a chance in hell.

Not to mention his own words about competing this year, but I guess you would know better than him.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:43 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

Yeah - not a thought shared by the rest of us.

If you have a chance to succeed now without sacrificing chances to succeed in the future, you do it.

Lester may not be Kershaw, but he is a pitcher that can help a team at the front of their rotation. He is pricey, but the contract wouldn't prevent the Cubs from doing other things. And it would cost the Cubs no prospects, which could develop into pieces to help the club or be traded off for additional pieces to help the club.


and COF isn't taking into account that you don't just steak dinner, boom a starting rotation

Sign a guy this year even if you don't intend to contend. It is easier than trying to sign two next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Theo Epstein Hired??
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
why oh why do true Cubs fans want the Cubs to contend this year?
This is just an amazing statement.

Why not just suck until 2020?

I think Theo's plan has left him squarely in a timeline of contending in 2016. You are purposefully being obtuse.
There is no way that 2016 was his timeline to compete when he was hired. Not a chance in hell.

Not to mention his own words about competing this year, but I guess you would know better than him.

I said the plan LEFT HIM, not he left the plan that way. This is where he is in 2015 whether he intended it or not...a lot of young talent that are major league ready and need to play every day in a environment where short term goals are sacrificed in favor of figuring out your 2016-? roster. Trying to win the division with this current collection of talent is not only foolish but near impossible. Why do people expect all these kids to figure out their major league selves in a few months? You expect Bryant, Soler, Alcantara, Baez and maybe others to simply be good to great in their first full major league season? DO YOU? I don't trust Theo in the free agent market. I want him to get the majority of his talent through his system.

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