And not to you? Do tell...

Regardless to whom I addressed this point, it still applies to you. Besides, I believe I made it fairly obvious that I find the hand wringing and snide remarks to be asinine. So, I did address my brethren as well as the heretics.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

Well, we ALMOST got through one whole page without playing the race card. I'm proud of you guys.

So....my comments-- forget 2003, worry about now, which was basically your point as well-- which made the most sense is asinine?


o...k.... then.

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Ah yes, the internet standard "You guys are idiots for talking about 'X' on an messageboard about 'X' that I still keep reading and responding to because I'm the puppet-master pulling your strings." You forgot the "while you nerds keep posting about 'X' I'll be nailing the Swedish Bikini Team on my Lear Jet on the way back to mansion in Beverly Hills, have fun losers."

Apparently, I did not make my point terribly well. I humbly apologize.
You are using the topic to mock Cubs fans. Ergo, you DO give a shit as it is fodder for your grill.
You asked "who gives a shit" and it seems that you do.

I have agreed with you in the past Frank. I just doubt your philanthropic bent in asking the rhetorical question "who gives a shit?"
Ergo, the entire discussion (my part included Frank.) is asinine.
It's sports and vicarious living. The entire premise is silly.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

the reason people are still mulling over this is because the cubs didn't win it all when they should have, in 2003, and the baseball gods have punished them again...it was supposed to go, 2003 - cubs, 2004 - saux, 2005 - white sox, 2006 - TAMPA BAY DEVIL RAYS...DUH!!!!

Nas,

I can't believe you think management had it in for Dusty.

By your logic they had it out for every manager that didn't have talent on the roster equal to this years team.

You feel the need to go out of your way to defend Baker. We'll see how well he does with the Reds. Or will that be the managements fault as well? Personally I think you feel he got a raw deal beacause of his race. That's fine with me but I would have to disagree

Dusty didn't get a raw deal because he he black. Dusty's problem was that he had a team that outperformed expectations in 2003 riding the backs of two ace pitchers who had their career years, and an up and coming ace in Zambrano, and a VERY solid Matt Clement. Their rotation was a world series rotation.
This rotation was good enough to get to the WS, yes, but the hitters and the bullpen weren't. This was a team that was basically ticketed for a playoff berth but not a penant.
Cubs fans as of 2003 had an expectation of winning now. They felt Dusty was the magic charm that brought all the tangled pieces of Cubdome together. Ace pitchers? along with a power hitting Sosa? Must be the World Series, right?
Dusty coached that team to exactly how many wins it was capable of winning. Not enough for a playoff berth.
2005 and 2006 the Cubs underperformed. Was it because of the players lack of focus or Dusty's inability to get unfocused players focused?
Personally, I think Dusty can make a team win as many games as their talent will take them to. He isn't going to win any games with creativity and managerial guile. I honestly think he got the pants managed off him on a regular basis.
But the fans didn't relate to Dusty the way they would have related to and loveed an manager earlier. Now, they expected to win. The average Cubs fan was sick of the "Loveable Losers" rap. Hated the shit out of it actually. Now, the Cubs were expected to be the class of the NL. And you know what happens when expectations aren't met, right?
While this was happening the Cubs major rivals were winning. The Red Sox in 04 meant that even the other "cursed" team could have broken out of it and won. Then the White Sox. Then the bloody Cardinals were winning a World Series. 2006 was like getting your teeth drilled for 3 hours at a time each and every game.
Dusty took the blame yes. The manager will eventually anyway. There was a confluence of things here that made Dusty look pretty bad, even thought the worst of it wasn't really deserved.
All that being said, I saw the way he was managing the Reds. I saw his leadoff bunt with Corey Patterson in the 3rd down a couple runs and I say, "Golly. I don't miss those days."

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Um yeah, after being one of his biggest supporters when he came to the Cubs before the 03 season began I watched 03 and 04 and had to change my mind about his ability to manage a team. Say what you will about the roster, and as I said above you are right this team is better. But that doesn't mean shit, Baker still blew as a manager and he will do it again. He can't win the big series. It's OBVIOUS, did you see the WS GIants vs Angels? Stop acting likt it didn't happen.

And yeah I am the one saying you are defending him this passionalty because of his race, you never said it outright but I think it's obvious. I mean why aren't you defending every manager that had a shitty roster? LOL. You'd be posting all flipping day!

Everyone is entitlted to their opinion, I totally respect yours. Just my take Nas.

Dusty was impacted by Jim Hendry's inability to shore up the roster in 2005 and 2006. Look at 2005, Dusty had to play scrubs Todd Hollandsworth, Jerry hairston Jr. and Jeremy Burnitz more than 100 games. They had a broken down Nomar cluttering up the roster. In 2006, you had young Matt Murton and Ronny Cedeno playing every day. Your best bench guy was Phil Nevin. Mark Prior and Kerry Wood failed to make it through the season paving the way for at the time 4A callups Rich Hill and Sean Marshall.

It was a poor job of roster setup those two years.

Fast forward to now - Hendry got Soriano, DeRosa, Floyd (who was on the downswing but produced), Lilly, Eyre and Bobby Howry before last season to help the roster and then went out this offseason and grabbed a Fukodome, Reed Johnson and Jon Lieber to add to a division winning club. Hendry was able to spend more and did it pretty well.

Hendry got Eyre and Howry before 2006, actually.

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let's not let facts get in the way of a perfectly good argument.

so YOU'RE the one rush limbaugh was talking about

Cmon now I never said that your opnion on this matter is global. It has nothing to do with Rex, and I don't think thats the only reason your defending him.
My opnion of Baker is based on his performance as manager, not Hendry's performance. Forget the records. How about all the enabling? And How about blaming it all on Stone? How about GIANTS vs ANGELS???

Baker BLOWS. He will prove it again with the Reds.

this thread is still going? lots of bitter dusty memories.

LOL. We should just throw gas on it every time the Cubs play the Reds.

More Fibre Marty Brenneman might help with that as well.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

NSJ has been awfully quiet - must be working alot - can't be because the Reds are struggling.

I had noticed that. He was chirping right before the series and then...

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

The Reds batted out of order in the ninth Sunday. Dusty strikes again.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That is absolutely TERRIBLE, that this could happen to a manager TWICE in his major league career.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014