As a full time starting pitcher...

Mark Buehrle was 40 games over .500 for the Sox, while the team had a .521 win% over that time.

Roy Halladay had a .661 win% while the Blue Jays had a .498 win% over that time.

Over 60 starts with the .407 win% Cubs, Matt Garza managed to have a winning record at 21-18

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Matt Garza /thread plz. I can't take it any more.....

What can't you take? That a pitcher like Matt Garza managed to post a winning record on some teams that were a lot worse than the ones Quintana was on with the Sox?

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Wrigley Field renovations were not performed in a day, or even a single offseason.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'm not sure why you're laughing. He's actually a good comp for Quintana.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Which teams were those? The one time he was 15-10, his team was 96-66.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The terrible Cubs teams of 2011, 2012, 2013.

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.418 during his Cubs tenure, actually, if you want to be accurate. And we've confirmed two and a half seasons as too small a sample size to judge a pitcher.

Quintana topics have been great for weeding out the casual fans like JORR.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I was accurate; https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ma01.shtml

I don't necessarily disagree with that. But the point is that if a guy like Matt Garza can manage to go 21-18 on a team that barely wins 40% of its games, then you can't use the White Sox record as an argument for Quintana.

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You were not accurate, as you factored in the Cubs record in 2013 after Matt Garza was traded, which is how you got .407 instead of .418.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Whatever. I hope you enjoy Quintana's time in a Cub uniform. Sincerely.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

OK, IMU;

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Yes, I can. Quintana had 169 starts for the White Sox versus Garza's 60 for the Cubs.

And if you want to discuss sample sizes that you've already admitted are too small, Matt Garza was initially 15-17 with the Cubs before he had an extremely short-lived 'good streak' that had him somehow compile a 6-1 record before he was traded.

We're essentially reconfirming that Pitcher W-L record is a shitty statistic.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

If you can honestly say and mean that you think Garza would have been a .538 pitcher for the Cubs had he been on the team from 2009-2014, then this conversation is over because you truly would be clueless. Garza has been on multiple teams, good and bad, and his career is over. You can now accurately judge him.

Quintana has only ever been on bad teams, less his first season and the last couple baseball months, for the entirety of his career. He has maintained a .500 career record despite this, to this point. Now he is on a good team and should be for a couple more years. Let's address his record at that point. I already know what JORR's angle will be come that time. Hopefully you will be more logical.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

With a losing record. If he was as good as MANY claim he is, he would have managed to win a few more games for the Sox.

Quintana is who he is; A .500 pitcher.

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On a bad team, you are right. Cubs didn't trade for him so he could pitch on a bad team.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Ted Lilly came to the Cubs with a career 59-58 record.

Then he went 47-34

IMU is doing God's work in this thread. I no longer have the patience to deal with stupid baseball fans that think Wins and Losses are a valuable tool for measuring a pitcher's performance.

I love Quintana and will never cheer wish ill of him but since they were intent on trading him I am pleased with the return

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

He had some bad records early in his career on good teams. He was better than .500 in Toronto and was the pretty much the same pitcher with the Cubs. His record was marginally better on the better Cub teams but whether that's because the teams were better or because he matured as a pitcher in his 30s, we don't really know. In fact, the Blue Jays scored more runs than the Cubs in several of those seasons. I've never said it doesn't help when you're on a team that scores 850 runs, by the way. Anyway, it's not like he became a stud with the Cubs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I remember lily being a streak stopper. He come in after a losing streak and win a game.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

A .500 pitcher is a .500 pitcher except when he becomes a .580 pitcher and in that case he never was a .500 pitcher.

(think I Bernsteined that correctly.)

He was 10-10 and then 5-7. The next season he was traded. That's 15-17 during his two FULL seasons as a Cub.

So if Quintana goes .580 for the Cubs you're gonna claim he's the same guy?

What would his winning pct have to be for you to be surprised?

In a season? Nothing would surprise me. I think he's capable of winning twenty games, but it won't be because he plays on a team that averages .6 runs more per game. It will be because he doesn't make bad pitches in big spots and covers 20 outs in his games rather than 18 or something like that.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I'm pretty sure they were on a two game losing streak when this happened:

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Before last season he had given up 2 runs or less in 60% of his starts and 3 runs or less in 90% of his starts. He had the worst run support in baseball for like 4 seasons. He wasn't the problem.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He often allows more run support than he receives. That's a problem. And this season he's allowed more run support than he's received in half of his games. That's a problem. You'll see it more clearly in September when he's 12-13 for this Cub juggernaut.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I saw him be the best pitcher on a team that was 5 games back when he arrived last year. He'll build on that. He's a solid #2 in filled with #2's.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Good luck. I'm not rooting against him. I'm just pretty confident what he will do.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don