I sense...

Are you suggesting that a manager is only as good as his players ?

I think Lou gets a pass for being his first season. That's usually the case. Not because he's new to the job but because he's new to the fans.

I don't remember '03 but I'll bet Dusty didn't take any more heat for losing the series against the Marlins than Lou did for losing to the Diamondbacks.

Lou will get hammered by the fans soon enough if the team doesn't produce. Patience

I cannot remember the last time I have heard that series discussed without at least a passing mention of Lou pulling Zambrano early.


I'd much rather discuss the Sox moving into a virtual tie with the A's for best record in the AL

Yeah in a weird way Dusty didn't really get a lot of heat for the 03 season until after the 04 season. Sure, there was some criticism immediately after the Marlins series, but I don't remember it really getting bad until after they chocked the next season away and everybody felt like reexamining him.

Soriano

Big thumbs down to Lou for not telling him to cut that stupid little hop of his out. Now he's hurt. Serves him right.

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yeah, the comment about dusty not taking heat after 03 doesnt ring true to me. he took a beating right after, and it has commenced right up until this moment. he certainly did not get a free pass. he got wore out (rightfully so) about bringing in dave fucking veres and mike remlinger in game 7 when it was all on the line, when zambrano and clement chewed on sunflower seeds, and florida was urgently bringing in josh beckett and brad penney and it was all hands on deck.

I agree, Dusty got a raw deal in Chicago and Lou is getting a free pass. Lou's roster last year was much better than anything Dusty ever had with the Cubs and Dusty got them 5 outs from the world series.

Dusty is a especially good in game manager, he gets the most out of his players and gives fans hope for the future.

Chicago's loss is Cincinnati's gain. Dusty is lucky to be rid of the racist haters.

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<<<< I have a picture of EG Greg as my avatar.

There's that class again cropping up Frank. Keep up the good work. Maybe if you're lucky, he's out a good couple of months.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

Big deal, he does a hop. How many fly balls has he dropped because of his hop?

Maybe we should prohibit the players from running to the dugout between innings or celebrating after a win. We don't want players to hurt themselves.

The hop is just stupid. It makes the fielder less stable than keeping his feet steady underneath him. If it doesn't help in some way and has the potential to be a detriment, why do it. I never guessed it might bring about an injury though. I just always thought that it looked stupid.

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Go Cubs!!!!

As said, if the Cubs go in the tank this year and become an unlikeable team of assholes and run broadcasters out, Lou will get all the grief Dusty got. Just like Dusty, they'll bring up his managing in the previous year's playoffs (whether they said anything at the time or not) and say they knew he was a bad manager at that time. I also want to reiterate how big a deal it was that the perception of the 04 team as jerks is when people criticize Dusty. You could say it's typical Cub fans, caring more about what goes on around the field rather than on it, but running Chip and Stone out of town was a big deal. You can argue how much Dusty really effected the players behavior, but if you're a player's manager and your players are whiny bitches, that's a reflection on you.

Dusty got the deal he deserved, when the Cubs were good the fans liked him. When they sucked they hated him. The Cubs went from 1st to 3rd to 4th to 6th in the Central with him managing. When they finished 6th they had the 7th highest payroll in the majors. Add to that the biggest choke job in team history under his watch (whether you believe it was his fault or not) and I think he got a deal every other manager would expect.

and a deal every other manager would get.

any manager is like that - when times are good, they're the king. when not, they're the squire.

and the orioles.

The Cubs beat the Reds so Lou is clearly better than Dusty.

Go Cubs Win!

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Hey, at least Dusty broke the tradition of managers coming to the Cubs to die. He is the first, in a long time, to actually get another job. Good for him.
He is still a lousy strategist, but good for him.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Night and day... I'm not so sure about that. Not so much because Dusty's '05 and '06 rosters were good - they weren't; but the '07 and '08 squads are no picnic either. Outside of Z, Lou has had maybe a #3 starter (Lily) and a bunch of 4's and 5's. He has not had an established closer. Soriano, despite the huge $$$$ is, in my not-so-humble opinion, a major albatross for any team that has him. Lou had no catcher last year. He had no centerfielder (and really still doesn't). Guys like Theriot and Fontenot have contributed, but Dusty had them too, but preferred guys like Neifi Perez.

You mention Dusty's first season and his last 2, but you can't just gloss over 2004. That was his biggest failure. And don't discount 2003 when he was blessed with the miracle of Wood and Prior both being healthy, plus Z.

Jim Hendry, of whom I am a very harsh critic, did little to help Dusty outside of 2004. The rosters were clumsy and fundamentally weak. But Dusty certainly had weaknesses of his own.

In my estimation, Dusty would not have been able to patch together a division title with the '07 roster. I need more time to evaluate Lou, but I'm not optimistic given Hendry's continual inability to build a coherent roster for any of his managers.

No one should have to be the subject of any racist action or behavior.

Please stop using this as a reason Dusty should be heralded as successful and we should feel sorry for him. No one should feel sorry for him, last I checked he made millions for sleeping on the job most days. He was a bad manager for the Cubs, he had one bright moment in 03 and the team choked, just like Giants vs. Angels. Remember?

And for all we know if Dusty had this roster he may just win it all. But he could have also won it all if he didn't wear down Wood and Prior. You know what else IF the Cubs were the Yankees they would be in NY. And IF this and IF that. End result is all that matters.

There is no comparison between Lou and Dusty cause IT DOESN'T MATTER FOR SHIT!

Just my opnion. Enjoy some baseball!

The 2003 cubs roster looks shaky for sure, but they had great pitching that year. 3rd in the NL in ERA, 1st in Strikeouts, 2nd in Hits allowed. (Most walks given up though, ouch!) Don't know how much Dusty had to do with that.

and a playoff series choke that wound up in the history books because dusty decided to sit in the dugout chewing toothpicks instead of coming out and calming down his pitcher.

Dusty had a knack for being out-managed on any given day.
In 2003, I loved Dusty. Until that game 6 of the Marlins series.
I think Dusty failed to grasp the gravity of that situation, Prior freaking out on the mound, Alou's temper tantrum in left. He sat idly by while that team psyched the shit outta themselves. At that moment, I was screaming for Dusty to call everyone to the mound to just say "calm down, chill out, make a pitch, let's move on" or whatever a manager says to calm down a freaked out team. That was his job that night and he didn't do it. Yes, I feel that was a major 1st failure for Baker.
Baker also didn't reigh in the bullshit off the field stuff that was going on as well. I can't see Lou putting up with a player jumping on the damned on air talent.
Dusty's obsession with Perez, the mishandling of younger players.... I think he made a lot of stragatic mistakes, and managers, especially "Brilliant" managers, should not be getting out managed on a regular basis.
I was glad to see his tenure come to a conclusion when it did. I like Lou just fine. He seems to play the right players. he makes quick efficient moves.
My question: Do you see Dusty removing Wuertz after 5 pitches yesterday, were he the Cubs manager? 1st pitch HR, a 4 pitch walk and He Gone. Marmol comes in and gets the inning over (although it was a little ugly).
I see Lou as a definate upgrade over Dusty.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Again, you keep talking about IF's. I'm not speculating, he did wear down Wood and Prior. It did happen, what would have happened if he didn't? WHO KNOWS. But I recall a few games where the ptich count was way to high and it just didn't have to be that way. More information has come out over the last two years about pitchers and injuries, maybe you haven't seen or read anyh of the info but I have to say it makes a lot of sense and it relates to the situation in '03. Look up fatigue and how it relates to pitching injuries, if you haven't already.

Wood was injury prone, but you would be the only one in the country calling Prior a pussy in 03 or when he was picked. I remember him being called a sure thing because of his perfect mechanics, then he gets to the Cubs and becomes a pussy? I don't think so, he'll be back to form if not this year probably next.

Dusty's management style is not conducive to winning championships. He's a terrible in game manager, and he's an enabler or distracting/odd behavior. (evil stoney) Players of course love him, h has their back no matter what and defends them to the death.

And to think I was right up there yelling "IN DUSTY WE TRUSTY" back in the day!

Um...no. I said I don't remember '03. That means if you actually remember otherwise, then my guess is wrong. OK? Personally all I can remember was blaming Bartman for months afterwards.

I know I remember '04 and don't remember any of my Cub friends mentioning anything about Dusty any more than you would hear a typical fan bitch about their manager. After the '04 collapse it was game on and "Rip Dustyfest" was in full swing....at least in the media.

If there ever was a time and place and person to just come out and say "Dude, calm down" it was Dusty in 2003.

Nas, last year's Cubs and this year's Cubs are far from being "All Star teams" in my opinion.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The 2003 Chicago Cubs had 2 all stars. They also had Sammy Sosa who would have to be considered an all star caliber player if not for his "issues" during the season.

The 2007 Chicago Cubs had 2 all stars.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think you may be overrating these current teams. I dont think its even remotely close to "night and day".

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If you want to call them all star teams, then you need to use the benchmark for judging that, which would be all star players.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So what happened the next year when they were picked to go to the world series?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

by you? I've heard the Mets and Phillies being the most talked about NL winners, and Jayson Stark had the Braves going. I dont think many national people picked the Cubs.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul